Another insurance question
 

There are probably some insurance grues out there who can answer this question. During a discussion last night a question came up regarding coverage. If you insure a generally stock car and then undergo a significant horsepower increase (via engine change or accessories) and didn't tell the insurance company about the change are you still covered in case of an accident or can the insurance company refuse to pay? Assuming you are at fault. :confused:

Tom

Re: Another insurance question
 

Why would you presume that anyone on this forum can speak to what any given insurance company would or wouldn't cover?

Re: Another insurance question
 

My guess is it depends on the insurance company, but even with that said I will add that since premiums go up with horsepower, no I don't think you would be covered if the car originally had a 4 cylinder and you put in a boss 429.

Re: Another insurance question
 

Assuming that you are talking about antique insurance, this could be considered fraud and any claim could be denied. Of course this is depending on the insurance company and is a question that can be answered by them and not any guru or guessers.

Re: Another insurance question
 

I just changed insurance company's recently. One is a stock 49 Ford and the other a 38 Chevy street rod. I had to submit pictures of the engines, interiors, front and right side, and rear and left of both cars. So if any major changes are made they will know.

Re: Another insurance question
 

Keep your insurance company informed of any changes. If you don't they could deny a claim (in the policy fine print there is lots of ways they can refuse claim). Insurance companies talk to each other and if you are deceptive word gets out and you may have big trouble getting insurance for the future from anyone.

Re: Another insurance question
 

Why would you NOT tell your insurance provider of changes? If you add value to your car it probably would increase the premium to get the additional value covered. FWIW

Re: Another insurance question
 

If you infest more money into it, why not get your money back in the event if a catastrophe?..... Mark

Re: Another insurance question
 

This is an enthusiast forum, a place on the web for an exchange of ideas and knowledge amongst those with a common interest. Sure, sometimes a question will be asked by an individual that seems obvious to most of us. But if this is a true open forum for early Ford V-8 automotive enthusiasts (whether longtime & knowledgeable or new and curious), as a whole the members/participants of the forum should be positive & forthcoming with their thoughts, ideas and solutions. Simply put, if you don't have something positive to ad to the conversation, keep it to yourself. Lastly, we shouldn't assume there isn't anyone on this forum that can't answer a particular question, because as this thread shows, there are folks out there weighing in with positive responses to the original question.

Now, as for the original question, yes, one should let the insurance company know if they make a performance upgrade to their vehicle relative to the power of the engine if is would significantly increase speed. As is customary in automotive insurance coverage the vehicle with the V-8 powerplant is more of a liability than a vehicle powered by a 4-cylinder engine. Having said that, there may be a gray area. For example, if you have a stock flathead V-8 engine in your pre-48 V-8 vehicle (let's say, a 1940 Ford pickup) and you upgrade the top end w/alum. heads, dual carb induction, headers, cam change and an ignition upgrade, my opinion is that the HP increase is going to be nominal as opposed to swapping in an OHV V-8 like an OHV 351 Windsor V-8. In that case, I wouldn't say anything, unless one feels that these upgrades increased the value of the vehicle significantly enough to warrant an increase in the replacement value on the policy.

As stated earlier in this thread, most (not all) collector car policies, whether antique, restored or modified generally require numerous photographs of the vehicle from all angles outside, the interior and the engine compartment along with details about the modifications and materials used (i.e., leather interior, candy paint, magnesium wheels, etc.) so the underwriters can review and approve/deny coverage and how much the premium is if they approve. I went through this w/AAA in So. Cal. with one of my cars which is modified and has a high replacement value in contrast with some antique/restored vehicles. They took their own pictures and physically inspected it while I had to provide a detailed list to justify the replacement value and it was approved for coverage. I also have a stock "beater" w/OHV V-8 power & stock driveline currently under a regular auto policy which I'm trying to get covered through the same collector car program my other car's insured with because up to now AAA So. Cal. would only insure "show room finish" cars & not weathered, "patina" vehicles under their collector car policy.

The point is this: If the change to the vehicle is significant (i.e., changed flathead to OHV engine power, changed wheels & added WWW tires, reupholstered in leather, etc.) and changes your vehicles value, then update your vehicle description with them. But, if the change isn't significant in terms of liability issues (i.e., went from single to dual carbs, installed dual exhaust, changed radiator, etc.) then an update may not be necessary. However as for liability issues, anything that could give them an angle to deny a claim (such as changing over from a flathead engine to and OHV engine w/out upgrading the driveline, brakes & rolling stock to accommodate the HP increase) should be brought to the insurer's attention regarding ones collector car insurance policy. That's been my experience and observations regarding this subject.

Lastly, just a point regarding collector car policy's and angles to deny claims: Closely examine the fine print on one's policy relevant to when, where, how long or how far the vehicle can be driven. Some policies aren't very "permissive". In other words, there can be limitations where you can drive you vehicle to. For example, your policy may only allow the insured vehicle to be driven only to certain venues, such as a swap meet, organized national event, parades or other organized automotive related events. If your just out for a "Sunday drive" and get in an accident, they may deny the claim. That's the reason after long research into collector car policy's from Grundy , J.C. Taylor & others I settled with AAA So. Cal.'s collector car policy because it IS permissive. If I so choose, it allows me to take my "collector car" out and drive my family out to the beach to have dinner or any other type of excursion that isn't an official organized automotive related event. Maybe some of the other provider's of this type of auto insurance have changed their policy rules, but don't take it for granted. Ask them and even then, check the fine print yourself. Good luck!

Re: Another insurance question
 

Well stated.

Re: Another insurance question
 

Very good, 48er

Re: Another insurance question
 

When I bought my car (36tudor) from MI, I had State Farm add a policy for it before it left the previous owner's location. During delivery, the hood blew off, of course damaging it. State Farm paid the claim without any problem.
I had it insured for $11000. Since then I have been slowly restoring it. It will be on the road soon. I recently asked State Farm to increase the value to $20000. They refused, said I had to get an appraisal. That is reasonable, but in the meantime, if the car burned up, I'd be out several thousand dollars.
My policy does not restrict the number of miles I drive.
Mixed bag I guess.

Re: Another insurance question
 

I think if I had an insurance policy question I would call my insurance company and ask them and not post it here for a bunch of guesses.

Re: Another insurance question
 

I'd rather eat a booger than to read this thread....

Re: Another insurance question
 

Bon apetit! Do you enjoy your mucous dry or moist monsieur? (I do hope you washed your hands first as the nose is an area were germs can be easily spread) Not relevant to the subject matter, but colorful & somewhat comical in a juvenile way. Nevertheless, now that we are privy to your unique culinary appetites, do you have anything positive or relevant to add to the conversation? If so, please share your knowledge or experiences with insuring your classic or restored early/late Ford V-8; I'm sure everyone would love to hear your thoughts! ;)

Re: Another insurance question
 

First, this was an hypothetical question resulting from a discussion not an actual circumstance. Second, as for your reply, it may not be as simple as you suggest. Let's assume you make some substantial changes (or planning to do so), in the mechanics of your car (such an upgraded engine) or the general use of the vehicle. You call your insurance company and speak to a secretary-clerk-salesman or agent and receive an answer you feel comfortable with regarding the car's insurance coverage. Then let's assume at some later date a major event occurs and the insurance company is faced with a major payout. Ask yourself who is going to carry the day? What the secretary-clerk-salesman or agent may have or may not have told you or the insurance company's interpretation of their insurance policy? Unless, you have something iron-clad in writing... well, I think you get the picture.

Re: Another insurance question
 

True. Perfect example happened to me a couple of weeks ago. The AAA So. Cal. Collector car insurance field rep. I've spoken to at a couple of automotive related events about putting my "beater", weather-worn, "patina" 1941 early Ford V-8 car on a collector car policy assured me that after lengthy meetings and discussions with underwriters, AAA was able to change the policy parameters to include collector vehicle's that don't have a "show room finish" to be considered for coverage by them. So, I was called to come by a local AAA office with my '41 Ford and have an agent take photos of it to forward to the underwriters & get the approval process started and had a discussion with the agent in the office regarding my car. The agent wasn't aware of the change in policy and was telling me that the collector car policy only would covered collector cars with a "showroom finish" appearance. I had to get the field rep. on the phone who spoke to the office agent to assure them that the policy had indeed changed. Yet, though I was speaking to a bona fide AAA insurance agent at my local office they weren't up to speed on this particular auto insurance policy.

Re: Another insurance question
 

O.K. here is the short version.
Specialty insurance companies will inspect and insure your car for an "agreed value".
You should advise your agent of any changes if you hope to receive adequate compensation in the event of a claim.
And finally I am an agent and have been for 40 years.
I hope this helps.:cool:

Re: Another insurance question
 

Specialty car insurance is more based on agreed value as 41 LjH mentioned. Liability is generally a given but is usually more a fixed amount just like all other motor vehicles. If the policy is agreed value then that's all there would be. If you do work that increases the value, you have to change the policy for full coverage. You also have to follow the rules of the insurer as stated in the policy.

If you follow the rules and have an accident then it should be covered. If not, then litigation is the only recourse. If you increase your agreed value the policy will likely have a higher premium per period of coverage. It needs to be in writing to have a binding legal agreement. I wouldn't trust just calling them unless you know your rep personally and can trust them to expedite the changes.

Re: Another insurance question
 

Re: Another insurance question
 

Specialty vehicles are all covered about the same. Antiques sometimes fall into a different category but bottom line is that there are no new parts from the OEM available for them and he OEM may no longer exist so the owner has to decide what the value is. Loyds of London will insure about anything and so will others but they are underwritten by a vary large group of insurers. A specialty vehicle can be anything from an antique car to one that you have built out of parts. If the local motor vehicle department will give you a road title, it can be operated on the street and it will have to be insured before it can be registered. If you can't insure it, you can't legally operate it.

In my book, a substantially altered or modified original car just becomes a custom. If it already has a title then you only have to worry about finding someone who will insure it. Specialty insurers will sometimes come to your residence to look at the vehicle (take photographs) or they will have you fill out a questionnaire that will usually cover them for modifications. They are aware that folks play with their toys but they will also want to know if the risk to insure has changed since the car was originally insured. If they don't do this and there are no rules governing alterations/modifications in their policy then that is their risk and not so much yours. It could still lead to litigation though. It just depends on fortune and misfortune and the policy fine print.

Re: Another insurance question
 

I am late to the party here but .....

If you change your horsepower significantly via an engine change - say to an ohv V8 - then change your insurance to Grundy, Hagerty, (the two larger and better ones imho) or similar insurer that knows, understands, and has the experience to pay accordingly in the event of a total loss for your car.

An Antique insurer has an out if they see an engine change they were not notified of and may not pay or pay a lot less saying the value has changed.

Re: Another insurance question
 

If I have a question such as this one,I always call my agent and ask. she then calls the company to get the correct answer. Often she will have to talk to more than one person.

This way you have an official answer,not a third party one.

John

Re: Another insurance question
 

It looks like you've received the answer to your question! I'm sure if you post another question, someone in the forum community will be willing to help out with any information they might have on that particular topic. I think that's wonderful! PRE48V-8\:^]

P.S./Great feedback from those Ford Barn members who responded in a helpful, positive way to the initial "hypothetical" question from this thread...