Awwe Crap!
 

So, I drove my car to work today. All was fine till the drive home. I got a half block from home...had to stop for traffic before turning onto my road. I gradually let out the clutch to go, car moved about 6 inches, before I had the clutch all the way out, and something just basically released and the car wouldn't move in any gear. I pushed the car home and in the driveway, I tried reverse again and the car moved an inch and that was it. I haven't looked into this yet...wanted to check with you guys first. I hear a noise coming from the back of the car...can't tell if it's from the center section or out by the hubs. The car has juice brakes and I don't know if the backing plates were the only change or if the whole diff was changed. It's a closed drive line. Can the hub keys shear? Where should I look first? Thanks.

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I would start by pulling hubs and inspect axle shafts...but usually when they break the wheels will pull out. My guess is a broken drive shaft

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Ok - this happened to a friend of mine recently. the axle key had sheared. Take the hub caps off and get someone to look at the hubs as you try to (carefully) drive away. The axle on the side that has sheared will be turning.

Well it will if it is the axle key. If not it will be something else. May be a relatively easy fix. In my friends case the axle had twisted quite dramatically. We managed to get him moving again by cutting down a key and putting it in the first inch of shaft where the keyway was still straight. The jury rigged fix is still holding up while he sources another axle.

Mart.

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This is what I'm really hoping for. I'll take a look a bit later...I'm putting new thermostats in the clothes dryer...gotta keep mama happy first!

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Cap'n, Good vibes going out to the Ford-iverse!

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I replaced many axle keys in the 40 I drove to high school. Of course the whole car was worn out.

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I just can't imagine it being a driveline...this was about as soft of a start from a dead stop as possible. No bang, clunk or grinding...essentially it stopped like I had pushed the clutch back in. There is a slight noise that I hear now and I can tell things are turning. If it was a broken driveline, the car wouldn't have moved slightly backward when I tried revers in the driveway would it? Dryer is back together but the wife is at the neighbors so my sheared key test will need to wait till she gets back. In the mean time, are these keys hardened and need to be specially ordered or is hardware stock going to work? If these keys sheared during my dad's tenure with the car I would bet he stuck whatever would work in there...and I used those same keys during restoration.

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I also have to confess an error in my ways during restoration that I discovered by reading a recent thread about problems with tightening an axle nut. I am certain that when I bolted those rear hubs back on, I tightened them as tight as I could get them with the breaker bar I have. I have since learned that something in the neighborhood of 200 ft-lbs is required. I can guarantee that they weren't that tight. If a key sheared, this would likely be a contributing factor. I'm learning and sometimes a lesson costs money.

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I had this happen on a 40 tudor some 15 years ago. Very gentle start from traffic lights then a slight "ping" and no drive.
Towed it home a couple of miles, then jacked up rear, pulled the drum/hub and the end of the half shaft came with it it! A very old grubby fracture and a tiny bit of clean metal, obviously an old fault. I hope this is not the situation in your case and it is only a sheared axle key.
Interestingly I was going through a few half shafts looking for a good one and in one I found the remains of a sheared key wedged into the slot, no distortion on the slot but the key must have been seized in and sheared along its length.
Good luck.

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As has been stated before--The key isn't there to drive the hub. If the key sheared, the hub wasn't tight enough. The friction between the taper on the axle and the taper inside of the hub is what is supposed to move the car.
IF it was loose enough to shear the key you really need to make sure there is no crack beginning at the inner end of the keyway.
I never take the nut right up to max torque first . I tighten it up really tight, drive around the block and tighten again--do this maybe 3 times then use your cheater bar or torque wrench and move the nut to the next slot where it lines up with the hole and insert the cotter key. ( use a felt pen and draw a line on the end of the axle so you know where the cotter pin hole is.)

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Well, I have my answer...ugggg. Started the car and put it in gear with the wife watching the axle nuts...neither were turning. In neutral, there was a slow and steady clink, clink clink. I wedged my butt under the car and put my ear to the axle housings and it was clear that's where the noise was coming from. Put my ear to the pumpkin and could hear the noise but wasn't as pronounced. I grabbed the top of the right tire and gave it a jerk and all seemed well, did the same to the left and it rocked back and forth significantly...checked the hub while I was doing that and it wasn't the hub that was moving. Guess that means a broken drivers side axle?? If so, stand by for a lot of questions on finding an axle and how to repair it.

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If the axle is actually broken, and from your last post it sounds like it is, you are actually very fortunate that the failure occured while starting from a dead stop. Another scenario with the car in motion could have been much worse.
It will be a good learning experience for you to make the repair yourself, and we can help you along the way.

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JM, I've never been into one of these diff's but I'm definitely not shy in exploring uncharted terrorties. I would really really like this to be a project I can do without dropping the whole axle and torque tube. I have a great shop in Fairbanks but here, I'm basically a driveway mechanic. The garage here is full of my tools. What kind of information or photos do I need to provide in order to know what axle I need? I don't know if the axle has been changed over all this time There's a 9-34 on the bottom rib which is a 3.78 ratio if that helps.

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Well that's not going to be happening!!! :D

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You could probably do this repair while not removing the complete rear, by just removing the left side axle housing, and then remove the axles, differential carrier, and ring gear as an assembly. BUT, this could windup being a bit more complicated, and taking more time when removing everything that needs to come apart while working on your back in a confined area. Another reason to remove the complete rear might be to do a complete check of all components, and replacing anything that may need replacing, including new seals and gaskets. Also, if you were not completely happy with the gear ratio that's in this car now, this would be an opportunity to make that change. I sometimes seem to be a gluten for punishment when I tackle these kinds of repairs on my cars, so you would need to make the call on how you want to proceed with this project.

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FREE...35 Ford Cabriolet. Broken axle...heading to the crusher if no takers. :)

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Put me down as a low bidder :D, since I'm now old Ford car poor, with no space left to fit even one more car part, let alone a complete car :D.

oh wait....you said FREE, I'll be there tomorrow morning.

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JM, is there a better option than 3.78 gear ratio for these rear ends? I've had the rear end out of this car so I'm not a stranger to it. I work full time and I've discovered here in MI it's either 90+ and 1000% humidity or 30 below and I don't have an inside environment like I used to. If this is a weekend job then I can swing it...I don't want to be caught by the weather with my car outside if this is a protracted process. I store it in my trailer. If this is more than a quick weekend job, I'd rather put the car to bed for the season, get what I need over the winter and hit it hard in spring when temps are more conducive to human life. This is the last thing I expected!!!

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You could find another complete rear end and swap it in while you rebuild the one thats in it now.

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Now that's an idea to concider, but the catch might be that it may need to be torn down to confirm its goodness.

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I'm not in a hurry to rebuild this. When I left for work this morning I anticipated that it would be my last drive for the season and I got a half block away from home when it broke down. My hardship will be getting it in the trailer for winter storage now. I've got nothing but time. If this was a weekend job, I'd take it on but I don't think it is. I plan on gathering the parts I need and educating myself for what lies ahead this spring. No room for a spare rear end here...in Fairbanks, different story. My first experience digging into a rear end...I'm looking forward to it!!

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That may depend on who you talk to. In my case, the rear in my fordor sedan, that had 3.78 gears, failed last November. When I tore this rear apart this spring, it was a complete disaster internally. I liked the 3.78 gears, but did not have a spare set with 10 spline pinion. I did have a set of 3.54, 10 spline gears, so decided to use those even though many assured me I would not like that ratio in hilly country. Long story short, it took me nearly a month to take the rear completely out, take it apart, gather all the parts I needed, and get my car back together and ready for a ~ 1350 mile one way/2800 round trip, to Talsa, Oklahoma in June. I took the high roads going out, over the hills and mountains of MD, WVA, and PA, and never had a problem going over those hills and mountains, and never had to downshift going up these inclines. As open road gears, I really like these 3.54's

If you take that rear all the way out, completely dismantling it, carefully inspecting each component, possibly finding issues with other things besides a broken axle, that you will need to find and replace, then carefully and accurately setting bearing preloads, gear backlash by shifting shims (gaskets) from side to side, then doing a final inspection of actual gear mesh, and finally torquing everything to specifications and reassemble this into your car, it will NOT be a weekend job, at least for me it wouldn't. The only gotcha that I can see with putting it to bed and gathering all the parts you need to do this in the spring is....you really won't know exactly what you need until you take the rear apart.
It's a tough call on what to expect next when playing with these early Ford V-8's, but honestly, for me, its all part of the fun.

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Hi all; remember Vern Tardel has a great new book on rear diff's. Newc

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Take a look at these, I'm in the process of putting together a modified banjo for my '28.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/t...st-one.981464/

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/t...o-axle.812569/

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/t...ebuild.462776/

Re: Awwe Crap!
 

The job can certainly be a weekend job for one who has had prior experience doing it. I had built my diff from scratch, but unknowingly installed an axle set with cracks. When an axle let go 1000 miles from home, I got lucky in being able to use a fellow Fordist's garage and beer refrigerator, as well as access to his bone yard! 36 hours later, I was on the road again.

No, you do not have to remove the torque tube, but will have to remove the spring and shocks. As mentioned before, you may want to make a career out of the job, but just for axles, piece of cake.

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I just went through pulling apart a rear axle on a '36 without removing the entire rear axle assembly from under the car. Generally speaking everything went rather smooth . If you do need a rear axle shaft the part number for a '35 -'38 (48-4235), 32.85" - 18 teeth. A real challenge was trying to find a good axle shaft. Not many of them out there. I do have some pictures of what I did. If interested send me your email via PM and I will dig out what I have and send them to you.

Tom

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I had a similar thing happen to me and it was the driveshaft broke at the end of the tube driveshaft where the spline piece was welded to the tube. Trailered it home and that is what I found after about 12000 to 13000 miles of trouble free miles. Just my story. kerk

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After sleeping on this, I decided that I'll take on the project if I can find an axle before I get started. I don't want the car apart, sitting in front of the garage, all winter because I can't find the parts to fix it. As I mentioned, I'm not sure if this is the original diff to the car or if my dad swapped it out when he converted it over to juice brakes. What do I need to look for to determine what diff I have and what axle I need?

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Have a look where the spring attaches to the axle. If the attachment points on the axle are part of the axle casing, it is a 37-40 axle. If the attachment points are on an extension of the radius arms and are bolted to the axle then that is 35/36.

In theory any complete rear end assembly 35-40 ought to bolt in. Obviously if it is exacly the same it may be simpler with regards to running the brake lines etc.

I meant to reply earlier to say that if you jack up the rear and pull each wheel, one of them ought to pull right out. This will confirm the broken axle diagnosis. If one does not pull right out, it may be because it is catching on the brakes or safety hubs or retainers have been fitted in the past.
One other thing, is the speedo working when the car is supposed to be, but not driving? If it is it means the problem is rearward of the gearbox, if it isn't, the fault is in the gearbox or clutch.

No harm in doing a little testing to try and isolate the problem.

If it were me and the tests show it is an axle, I would first get an axle and then only partially dismantle the left side of the casing. This would allow the diff unit and the axle shafts as an assembly to be withdrawn. they can be fitted up with new shafts and reassembled. With luck, if the gaskets do not get torn it can be bolted back together and back up and running in a relatively short time.

Mart.

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Thanks Mart, I will run home and take some pictures of what I have...I don't believe the attachment points are bolted on but will check. I'm certain it's a broken axle. In neutral with the engine running, there's a slow and steady clink, clink, clink coming from the rear end and when I put my ear on the axle tube, it's clear the noise is coming from within. I can also grab the left rear tire and rock it back and forth with quite a bit of movement...it never did that before.
I mentioned that this will be a driveway project but failed to mention that once the axle is out of the car, I can set up a table in the garage and work on it inside...I just can't fit the whole car in there...sigh!

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I've already suggested this is not the way I would go about it, I would remove the whole axle assembly and go through it. However, if you want to go the one axle replacement only approach be sure you understand how the gaskets determine the backlash and bearing load. If the existing gaskets do not come off intact, then you need to be sure of the thickness of them. Any new gaskets must remain identical to the existing ones.

Some of this may help (if you can read it!). Found a slightly clearer copy of one of the pages.

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Capt, if your axle housings look like these, with the angled flange welded in place like these for rear wishbone attachment, then you would have a '35-'36 rear.

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JM, also aren't these in the years where you have to consider the spider gears teeth counts? I know there are different spider gears (teeth count wise) but are the axle teeth counts different as well?

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Yes there are different tooth count on axles used in the '35 to '40 rears. The earlier rears in this range have 18 teeth on their axles, while the later versions have 16 teeth. They can be interchanged, but only when using the same tooth count axles, and the appropriate spider gears as an assembly.

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In neutral with engine running you hear a clink clink clink?? This would not necessarily mean a broken axle to me because the rear gears should not be turning when trans is in neutral. What does the speedometer head do when engine is running, transmission is in gear, and clutch pedal is all the way out, and what type of noise do you hear at the rear then? Keep in mind that noises can travel on the drive train. What noises you think are coming from the rear could actually be coming from the front area of the torque tube (i.e. U joint area), or the transmission, and vice versa.

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Thanks JM, I'm a QC guy, so things are a little different. But I remember the spider gear issue. I built my QC with 9 inch axles and the V8 center section so it uses the original Ford V8 spider gears. Had to sort out the spider gear tooth count.

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Good catch, why would there be any sounds coming from the rear axle with the transmission in neutral?

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With the trans in neutral (and in gear), there is a ticking noise coming from the rear end. I thought it could be that the axle didn't break in a plane perpendicular to the axis of the axle and as the rotating half of the axle came in contact with the stationary half of the axle, it makes a click. Won't a transmission have a "float" rotation in neutral if there's nothing to prevent it from rotating? The clicking sound is similar in neutral and in gear but I didn't want to crawl under a running car with it in gear so I could put my ear to the axle.

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First batch of pics

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Last batch of pics. I measured from the face of the backing plate to the banjo flange and if memory serves, it was 24 5/8"