24 stud flathead
 

I have a question regarding a 24 stud flathead, i believe its a 221ci 85hp in a 39 tudor sedan deluxe that i have just imported into the UK.

Im totally new to these engines.
The car clearly hasnt been used or run for a while and there are a few parts missing but am needing to know how to deal with engine. I understand that they can crack, firstly i need to establish whether my engine is worth saving (i hope so as prices of flatheads in the UK are not cheap), it turns over by hand, the oil looks good on the dipstick. Where is it normal for them to crack, and what would be your first checks and steps in getting it running. I dont want to ruin it, if it was potentially good.
Also parts are expensive as i have to get them shipped from the US so dont want to order parts for it until i know its worth it.
Look forward to any help.

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

Are you going for a rebuild or just want to get the motor running ?

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

What is the history of the car? What country did you import it from? How long has it been dormant? What parts are missing? Why do you have this 'crack' fetish?

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

I would say that if it turns over, and the oil is clean, then you're good to try and start it. Most all flatties have a crack or two, most often between the jacket and a stud. Run it for a minute, then shut it down and check the oil and the coolant for contamination. Flatheads are very forgiving engines.

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

Would like to get it running and hope for the best.

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

Dont really know any history of the car, i imported it from the US, it looks to have a rebuilt distributor.
Haha "crack fetish" just wondered thats all.
Grill is missing, has 40 headlights unfortunatley, hood trim missing, few switches missing....

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

Ok thanks

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

Take the intake off and check if all valves move.
Put some mmo in cylinders and on valve stems.
Check distributor and clean out the carb then fire it up !

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

Ok thanks, whats mmo?? I also need some education on the distributor - its not something ive seen before, think its the divers helmet one.

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

Morning Jonny, Would it be possible to get some pics of the engine? I am also the owner of a 221 flatty. It took some pictures for me to identify the motor. I though I had a 59ab and found out I had a 221 sleeved engine. The sleeves had been removed at some point and the engine bored .040 and somehow came out to be a 239ci flathead! No matter I still love it, and love to work on it. These guys on this forum are just wonderful people and a joy to read from. Great people all of them and a wealth of information. I found that going through the archives I have found answers to most all my questions. Whatever I needed top know had been asked before, and just b y reading I have learned a lot. Good luck with the car . Patrick

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

MMO - Marvel Mystery Oil. A light oil used in every facet of owning a flathead! LOL

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

Hello Patrick, thankyou for your reply. As you can see, my knowledge of these engines is zero!, so asking questions always seem a bit dumb, but i will search through the information on here and hopefully find what i need. I will take and post some photos on here, probably tomorrow now.

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

If your concern is you causing a crack, that is not very likely. As has been stated almost all of these engines have some cracks, some serious and some not so much. Who know what causes them, but the most likely it's overheating. Repeated extreme overheating takes a toll. If you are just attempting to get it running that is one thing (it is not likely you are going to hurt it). If you are going to rebuild it, that is another issue. Before sinking a lot of money in it have the block checked out by someone that knows what their looking for. Both magnafluxe and pressure tested.

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

here's a link to MacVP's website with lots of good info, such as wiring diagrams, engine IDing....parts diagrams, etc.....good luck and have fun....Mike

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_home.htm

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

First thing to do is join the Early Ford V8 Club.
(and buy a copy of their 38/39 Ford book ).
There is an English regional chapter of the club.
Bound to be a member near you somewhere.
Or you can locate the nearest Vintage Car Club.
They will advise you where to get the carburettor and distributor checked out.
Pulling the inlet manifold and checking for stuck valves is the way to go first.
All the wiring, switches, stainless grill and body trim is reproduced and easy to come by.
A decent original 39 deluxe grille ( not the repro ) will prove to be a little harder to find, but they are out there.
There are still plenty of mechanics around who have worked with the older engines.
Down here in New Zealand there are still lots of early flathead fords ( and parts ) - mostly RHD - but a lot of LHD cars have come in from the USA over the past 10 years or so.
If you shop around you'll find most parts are not too badly priced.
Regards,
Chris.NZ.

[email protected]

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

Jseery good advice thanks.
Mike thanks for the link looks to be some good info there.
Chris, il pull the inlet today and have a look, and yes i think finding a decent grille will be difficult.
Thanks for the advice so far.

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

Things have changed....I said the engine turns over, as that was what i was told by the seller. Ive only just collected the car so havnt had a chance to check it myself until today...The engine does not turn over, the starting handle nut did indeed turn ( a little) with a bar but the engine does not.
I pulled a head and the inlet and found this. To say im pissed off is an understatement.
http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/...psi2kilrfg.jpg

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

Wow! That sucks.
I hope you have some sort of recourse with the seller.
Sorry to see that. Good luck.

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

I've taken engines apart that looked like this, but never again would i try to save anything except the block and crank. Cut the rods off with a torch or sazall. then using a hole saw of the correct dia snd slot the pistons with the saz all, be careful not to hit the cylinder walls. now you can brake the pistons out. Now get the block bake cleaned and pressure tested. If it passes tha t you can try and remove the valves. AS you can see, replacement would be cheaper. You might want to find a hit man

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

Yep it certainly sucks, il cotact the seller but have my doubts...I thought my biggest problem would be finding a decent grille. The grille doesnt matter so much now.

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

Do you have a prefered hit man that i can have the contact details of:rolleyes: (joke)
Sounds like a lot of work when the block may be scrap anyway. Think il be looking for a replacement, just being put of pocket and trying to get this car on the road on a tight budget is frustrating but i guess thats cars.

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

Where abouts are you in England? There is a bunch of this stuff over here, just gotta know where to look mate, that engine may yield a good crank and block. I've stripped stuff that looked like that, it takes time and patience, most often it's the crank, rods, maybe cam and if lucky the block. Of this stuff, rods cranks and cams are findable over here for not a lot (used one's, so would need checking/resizing) cams easy, cranks fairly easy.
So with that stuff available, I'd pretty much do as Ron said. You can gas axe the valves and springs to get um out. Hole saw the pistons, but use a very short drill in the arbour, so you don't drill into the small end of the rod. Get under and remove all the caps you can get at and smack the broken (cus you just bored a hole in it) piston and Rod out. You can then fiddle fart the remaining rods out as you may be able to turn the crank enough.
Or gas axe the last ones and now the crank will come out.
Smack the tappets up away from the cam, then fight the cam out.
Just giving you an idea of what's ahead.
if your over on the east side, Bob Froch is your man. He will have all you kneed, may have a good 24 stud block, 21 stud blocks easy he has a bunch usually.
I'll pm his number if you want.
Martin.

Oh bugger! I've just remembered I was supposed to dig out an oil pump for a chap, had to clear my in box, can't remember his name.
If your reading this, bung me a pm re the pump please.
unless Bob sorted you out.
Martin.

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

Thanks Martin, im on the south coast, il google Bob and find his number, It would be good to be able to salvage some of it and make some progress on a tight budget. And i dont know where to start looking so hopefully Bob will be a useful contact. Thanks

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

That's a real shame. I can't believe that the seller said it turned over. It did, I guess, seventy years ago. Not lately, I assume. If a seller is a bit shady they suddenly become quite economical with the truth when they know the buyer is a long way away on another continent, and has no way of just popping round for a visit. It's a real kick in the bollocks when you spend a lot of money (especially with shipping etc.) and you rely so much on trust.

If the water damage is concentrated in the top end, and the crank and rods look good from the bottom end, I would try and salvage as much as possible, including the rods. The clincher is the block. If it is cracked around the pan rail (from freeze damage) will be the killer. If the block is otherwise ok, and the crank salvageable, the other parts ought to be able to be found. I have some +.045 pistons that I could sell if they would do the trick. (your engine might be a 3-1/16" bore, though, these are 3-3/16 +.045).

Mart.

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

Bob has a web page, but ring him. The number is on the page. He's a real nice bloke, should be able to sort you out. Lots of NOS Ford parts. He's not a computer guy.
I just had a look at your pics, damn! Can't believe the butt hole said it turned over! As Mart said, it did seventy years ago.
Where abouts on the south coast? Jim at royal kustoms is in Poole, he does a bunch of flathead stuff aswell, pretty sure he still has stocks of French ex army flatheads. He builds from stock to race flatmotors useing customers blocks or the frog ones from stock. Google Royal Kustoms, with the K.
Martin.

Re: 24 stud flathead
 

Thanks Mart and Martin,

I saw some of Jims work (royal Kustoms) at Pendine last year and he does build some lovely looking motors, but ive always thought they may be too rich for me, but i guess its worth asking.
Il definately be in touch with Bob, he sounds useful.
Also thanks Mart, for the offer to buy your pistons.

Maybe good news though, i contacted the seller and he emailed straight back and said he would see what he could do, and apologised. So will see what he comes up with????