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More about engine oils.. Was reading many posts tonight about "which type of engine oils."
Yeah.. One more, but this is kinda interesting. (This is where Mitch shows his jumping off the bridge images..) Read about the importance of the Zinc additives. Came across this.. Be objective; read the whole thing, and tell us what you think.. Product Description Style: 10W-30 | Size: 1 Quart, Case of 6 Royal Purple HPS 10W-30 High Performance Street Synthetic Motor Oil with Synerlec is fully synthetic - not made from crude oil like traditional motor oils. It's used to lubricate, clean, and cool engines with the utmost efficiency. Types of motor oil include conventional, synthetic, diesel, bio-based, hybrid (blends of conventional and synthetic), and recycled oils. This oil has a weight of SAE 10W-30, meaning it has an SAE viscosity rating of 10 in cold temperatures and a rating of 30 at normal operating temperature. Always check your vehicle's owner's manual to verify that this is the correct weight of motor oil for your vehicle. This oil is a full synthetic oil, meaning crude oil is not used in making it. Synthetic oil can be used in vehicle engines instead of motor oils refined from crude oil, and often provides superior mechanical performance over traditional motor oil, including increased gas mileage and reduced engine wear at extreme temperatures. Its complex method of production means it can often cost more than conventional motor oil. Royal Purple HPS Series motor oil is specifically formulated to maximize performance and meet the demands of high performance and modified engines. It is fortified with a high level of zinc/phosphorus anti-wear additive and Royal Purple's proprietary Synerlec additive technology. This unique blend enables HPS to outperform leading synthetics and conventional lubricants. The available viscosities include 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30, 10W-40 and 20W-50. HPS is recommended for vehicles no longer under manufacturer warranty and for those seeking a higher level of performance and protection. Royal Purple's HPS Series of motor oil responds to increased pressure with increased viscosity. It's advanced additive technologies, such as Synerlec improves the condition of metal-to-metal contact under severe conditions for greater protection. Just don't "shoot the messenger!" Larry |
Re: More about engine oils.. This is a manufacturer telling us how wonderful his product is? If they had data that shows that their formulation was superior to other oils based on independent tests for wear and other factors, maybe it would mean something, but as it is, it tells me nothing. They also say it is for "high performance and modified engines." Most of us have bone stock engines.
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Re: More about engine oils.. No zinc in 1930's oils. No problem with flat cams either. All this hullabaloo about reduced zinc in modern oils DOES NOT APPLY to a Model A. Get over it!
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Re: More about engine oils.. Howdy,
Royal Purple RP is pretty good stuff. I use some of their gear oils in some racing applications with tremendous success. In one case it virtually eliminated axle wear that was a problem. I believe when an oil mfr. states for modified engines they are usually talking about the ZDDP friction modifier additive package being at higher levels than is now acceptable for the latest cat converter cars. The higher ZDDP package indicative of off road/ racing oils is just what the Model A calls for and I for one am a big proponent of racing synthetics for off road or pre cat stuff. While I am new to Model A stuff I have much experience with racing oils and plan on running a 20-50 / straight 40 or maybe 50 synthetic when my 31 is back on the road hopefully this summer. Gary |
Re: More about engine oils.. Mhsprecher is correct, Larry, but I find this an interesting post nevertheless.
Many posters say ZDDP is unnecessary in a low-valve-spring-pressure engine such as we use. But ZDDP has far more applications in these engines than just tappet to cam friction. When boundary lubrication accidentally occurs, and surfaces fail to be separated by the oil film, damage can result. The presence of anti friction additives such as ZDDP and MoS2 can prevent seizure until the proper hydrodynamic oil film is restored, or the engine is shut down for rectification. Instances abound on this forum. I have personal experience of an engine nipping right up as I drove down the motorway after my timing was set too retarded (not by me!) until it stalled on the off ramp as I slowed. After cooling down I could turn it with the crank and then drove it to my workshop where a bore scope showed minor marking on the bore and still 95 psi compressions in all cylinders. This was at 5000 miles on an engine from Schwalms. At 18000 miles I tore it down due to cracked Babbitt on all the rods, which I replaced with Snyders inserted rods. I was able to examine the pistons and they all showed minor scoring on the thrust faces. No 3 was worst. I put it together with the same rings and it runs like a champ, still with 95 psi compressions. I use Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 oil, with 1400 ppm ZDDP and an organic Molybdenum additive (plus perhaps other proprietary unnamed anti wear additives). Whilst I have no proof the oil saved the engine, my experience leads me to believe it did. As a qualified Chemist, I manufactured high spec. lubricants for many years (Rocol UK brand), formulated many others, and was taught Tribology as an engineer in the sixties when it was a new science. I follow the newest research on lubricants and bearings avidly too, in Scientific and engineering papers. I witnessed piston seizures on 3 other engines here recently, due to too tight piston clearances and/or wrong timing. These were running mineral oils and had to be honed, and new pistons and rings fitted. I found a cam marking badly in a friends engine, due to the wrong follower foot fitted (too small for the grind). This also used Mobil 1 (10W-40 racing in this case) and there were blued markings on the lobes from the follower radii, but no serious wear. I posted pictures on this forum. I also found the same thing in a Tudor I bought my wife. In this case it was too late and the edge of the follower foot had not only blued the cam in a ring mark, but put chatter marks into all the lobes. Both had the same Ford10 cam grind (A UK car) and follower foot size. So I cannot say unequivocally that ZDDP benefits these old engines, but I want to give them the best chance I can. So I also use a full-flow oil filter and an air cleaner. Additive synthetic oils are not for everyone due to cost, but I change mine only every 3000 miles, and the cost is a bit less than 3 times the cheapest oils available here. Contentious issue I know, but there are other (more knowledgeable than me!) posters on this forum that use Mobil 1. I have no pecuniary interest in Mobil oil Co. and acknowledge that there are probably other very good synthetic and mineral oils that will do the same job. Motul, Red line, Amsoil, Royal Purple come to mind, though I have no experience of them personally. SAJ in NZ |
Re: More about engine oils.. Might be wrong but I'd hazard a guess that just about all the commercially available modern engine oils are superior to those sold in the 20/30's due to the advances in chemistry around additive packages alone?
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Re: More about engine oils.. Pat Goss, who appears on PBS Motor Week, lives near me and had a weekly call in show on the radio here that I listened to regularly. While he typically dealt with modern cars, he swears by synthetics and says that they provide more protection in stress situations and do not break down like regular petroleum oils do. He essentially said the same thing that SAJ wrote above and he made a good argument I use Mobil 1 in my modern vehicles with excellent results and both of my Model As. Maybe overkill, but engine rebuilds are expensive and good oil cheap insurance. I usually get my Mobil 1 at Costco, which saves a bit.
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Re: More about engine oils.. Odds are the biggest problem you have with valves are from improper assembly. Wrong size tappet head for the lifter profile, improper valve clearance for the type of metal of the valve and so on. The engine is going to fail not from the oil but from just a poor understanding of how to properly assemble the engine or the use of bad/ worn parts.
You can swear by what ever you want, it is your money wasted on the more expensive products. You need the additives to protect the motor. Keep a decent oil in the engine, change it not too frequently (couple thousand miles/ couple of years) and learn how the engine was built by Ford. Remember a factory engine with the crappy oil of the day went 50,000 to 80,000 miles till it needed new babbitt. |
Re: More about engine oils.. If an additive prevents scuffing on a cam and lifters on high spring pressure valve trains, then it only makes sense that it would also benefit lower pressure lifters and save some wear. I'll take zinc in my oil.
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Re: More about engine oils.. Kevin, 1928-1931 was the beginning of the depression. To most folks going through this time, Oil changes were a luxury. One of the last things they had any money for. Then came WW2 with it's rationing of petroleum products. I'm running an engine in one of my coupes that was rebuilt a couple of times. It was bored .040, but it was well into it's next cycle. The rear main was cracked and crumbled (new mains poured by Hercules welding) The center journal of the cam was 1.555-6. Rings worn out and one burned valve. BUT there was an inch or more of sludge in the oil pan. It had been run hard and put away wet.
The previous owner did not give a hoot about when it would fail. I think that after WW2,most Mod A owners just wanted to be rid of them and they got no preventative maintenance. So these cars got very little maintenance, due to costs and other factors, in their whole lives. Imagine what they'd be like today with proper maintenance, oil changes on schedules, etc. Terry Quote:
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Re: More about engine oils.. Main thing is just use a QUALITY oil & change it REGULARLY! Is one hooker really better than another??
Bill W. |
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Re: More about engine oils.. I must admit that I know more about antique tractors than Model A Fords. No proof but I would say that among old tractor restorers Rotella T is by far the preferred oil. The design and manufacture of these old engines is nearly the same. Ford produced many tractor engines. I have never heard of an engine failure due to the use of Rotella T. So my logic is if it's good enough for a 850 HP Cat with over 50K hours it must be OK in my 30 Coupe.
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Re: More about engine oils.. I do believe Rotella for diesels still has zinc I believe if one finds comfort in it.
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Re: More about engine oils.. i put 50 weight valvoline and lucas in a 78 350 chevy truck as it wouldnt hold oil pressure on anything else. planned on getting it a new engine. but about 10,000 miles later it is still good holding a 22lbshot/40lbs cold oil pressure same as the day i put in the 50. after that i had a small 90s jap 4cyl for commuting that leaked and burned oil after a couple years i forgot to give it its weekly quart treatment and i drove it home making a ton of noise. drained the 5w30 put used oil from the truck with the lucas and it quieted the engine down until you got to 2500 rpm and then the knock came back. it ran like that until i could get a new car. i put 15-40 in the A as it is what people said here. but the lucas is some good stuff. havent put it in the a yet but im considering it.
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Re: More about engine oils.. Place me in the synthetic camp, Mobil 1 for all my vehicles for, oh, 35 years. My experience and research leads me to the opinion that good synthetics cut engine wear by roughly a factor of ten. I even use Mobil 1 in my lawnmower...
The research referred to involved oil analysis at short intervals (on a modern car admittedly) to look at the levels of wear metals present in the oil. This was a crowd-funded independent project tragically cut short by the death of the project instigator in a car crash. If you ever get the chance, compare the internals of a torn-down engine run on syn and one run on 'dino" oil. It's an eye-opener. All that being said, I'm not brave enough to put syn oil in my A, as it hasn't been rebuilt in at least half a century. If I ever have it rebuilt to modern standards, with insert bearings and modern seals, it'll be run on synthetic for sure. |
Re: More about engine oils.. [QUOTE=mhsprecher;1222890]Pat Goss, who appears on PBS Motor Week, lives near me and had a weekly call in show on the radio here that I listened to regularly. While he typically dealt with modern cars, he swears by synthetics and says that they provide more protection in stress situations and do not break down like regular petroleum oils do. He essentially said the same thing that SAJ wrote above and he made a good argument I use Mobil 1 in my modern vehicles with excellent results and both of my Model As. Maybe overkill, but engine rebuilds are expensive and good oil cheap insurance. I usually get my Mobil 1 at Costco, which saves a bit.[/QUOTE
On national TV, Pat Goss once said, "THE MAIN ADVANTAGE TO HAVING DUAL OVERHEAD CAMS, IS THAT THEY ONLY TURN 1/2 AS FAST AS A SINGLE CAM"! Point is: Don't believe everything you hear, even frum "EXPURTS":eek: Bill W. |
Re: More about engine oils.. the rebuilder told me to use 15w 40 with a bottle of the ZDDPlus
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I can only comment on royal purple in a racing application. We have found that
it would break down with race fuel and become super diluted. Would I use it in my A hell no but I do use Mobil 1 ..15/50 and rotella 15/40 in A's.. I have never used a zinc additive as both products contain it in enough levels |
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No bridge images!! |
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Mobil 1 15/50. Has 1300 zinc and 1200 phosphorus Zinc is important for any flat tappet engine.. |
Re: More about engine oils.. all of these posts have an oddly familiar ring to them
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Re: More about engine oils.. [QUOTE=BILL WILLIAMSON;1223336]
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By the way, an "Ex" is a has-been, and a "Spurt" is a drip under pressure! |
Re: More about engine oils.. Don't use full synthetic till your rings are seated on a new rebuild
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I'm curious as to why also. A new 350 GM crate engine I recently purchased stated that also. |
Re: More about engine oils.. I use Mobil 1 in my model A. I am going to use this in my bored and stroked flathead. vr1_racing.pdf
Use whatever makes you comfortable I agree they all are good. John |
Re: More about engine oils.. our local radio mechanic has been promoting syns for over 20 years in new or fairly new engines after first change.also claims 6,000 between changes.with crude oil down near $30.00 a barrel,i wonder if our motor oil will come down in price in the future? tom
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Re: More about engine oils.. DO WE REALLY NEED TO KNOW THIS MUCH ABOUT MOTOR OILS???? I'm DROWNING----------in FACTS.
Bill W. |
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SA sooonooout |
Re: More about engine oils.. I think it has a lot to do with the quallity of the hone job... Many factory brand new motors come with synthetic and are not run in before delivery... Most rebuilt motors are told to use reg oil first for break in.....
Any more thoughts on this |
Re: More about engine oils.. Before we put this fiasco to bed.. One more thing.
I emailed Mobil about their 10 W 30 syn for Model A engines and am waiting to see what they tell me. Bet it will be a gem of double talk.. Will post results.. If they even respond.. ;) |
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https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us...pecs-guide.pdf |
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I did read that Molbil 1 does contain Zinc. Thanks, Mitch.. |
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