About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

Not sure if this is the right area to post this but .....

I'll give you a run down, I OFFERED A REFUND AS SOON AS HE SAID THEY ARE NOT WHAT HE WANTS>>> i sold some model T roadster doors to a barner, doors are not what he wants, I was paid pay pal friends and family to save costs because he didnt want to spend any more than he had to for the doors including shipping now he says "as i look back i should have know you were shady by asking that" I said what ever , i offer a refund on the doors , But the buyer wants me to refund his money before he sends the doors back, he says im out of line asking for the process to take that route, needless to say this is getting ugly....I told him any business in the country would only do business this way also, But he insists that i'm trying to rip him off by asking this..., And that is not the case at all, Would any body else agree..? i guess im confused here... What do you think?

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

No refund till I got parts in hand!!

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

Well Larry I know you are a stand up guy. I agree, no refund until doors are back.

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

You sent pictures of the doors right? He wanted them.

Doesn't seem to be a misrepresented condition issue, but a buyer that isn't informed on what he needed to buy. Tell him to keep the doors and you keep the money... or send the doors and you'll refund.

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

I sent pics of the doors to him, and there is some filler in the bottom inside that i didnt notice until he sent me pics of the ares, which is fine , but no refund till doors returned in same shape as i sent them to him is how i feel, thanks for the inout guys,... thanks Larry

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

warning be carefull with paypal they will take the buyers side no matter what,and return his money and they get to keep the item also,ask me how I know....cash or postal mo is best.not sure with friends family payments

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

L.L.Bean has the most accommodating return policy and Customer Service department that I have ever encountered. You get a refund or replacement when the merchandise clears their returns department. They will send a quick replacement prior to receipt of the return, but you have to pay for it and then get a refund when your return clears. The dude just wants to keep the doors and get his money refunded. I'm sure 100% of honest people agree with your policy Larry. I've heard that complaint about Paypal before.

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

Did you try searching here and an HAMB for the persons name? You may find your answer. Good luck

Charlie Stephens

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

Maybe you could contact PayPal & explain the issue to them, so they know that you have offered to refund the money after you recieve the doors back. I am just thinkn out load as I have not delt with them before. Bill

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

PayPal friends and family means the doors are not associated with the PayPal transaction.....friends and family is a process to send $$ to friends. Why doesn't he trust you? He seems to be the one that has the least integrity in this deal.

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

No friends near him that can pay him a visit and checkout the doors now attached to his car ;)
What comes to mind will give me free meals for an extended time...another scammer to add to the wall of shame !!
Not a to bad idee...new sticky thread...Wall of shame !

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

Been there and done that to the tune of 1600 with Pay Pal when it first started. I sold the customer a complete Air Ride Suspension at list price. Air Ride sent him my dealer invoice and he complained that I over charged him. Pay Pal took his side and I got screwed. I have just started back with Pay Pal recently so we'll see. I run a reputable business and have since I started. It was just a rather expensive learning experience.

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

Did Paypal release the funds to you yet? I don't think he has any Paypal protection if you went the "gift" route. If he is a standup guy, he will send the doors back to you and then the refund will be sent. If you have the funds, you are in the driver's seat. Good luck.

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

You also may want to clean-out that P-Pal account BEFORE P-Pal decides to freeze it on you. DD

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

Paypal takes the money out of your associated account or will place a debit in the account so subsequent "income" would never make it to your account until the refund is paid off. So with Paypal it is "Seller beware".

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

parts come 1st refund comes 2nd

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

It's really pretty simple.... no doors, no refund.
Wonder what his real problem is?

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

I have been asked by a seller more than once to send the paypal money as a friend transaction ,I refused anticipating the dilemma you are in ,I just offer to ad the PP fee. It pays to send a customer plenty of good photos so he can make a informed purchase .Normally if he starts a PP dispute when you see the doors returned they will release the money to him ,also there is a time limit to when he can lodge a claim . Ted

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

Isnt it so that sending it as a payment gives the buyer more power then sending it as a "gift" ??
As i see it now the buyer cant get the money back since it was a "gift".
So if he dont return the doors in good condition just stay away from him in the future.

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

That's a big 10-4 good buddy!

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

Exactly what I do. You have to pay the fee anyway, might just as well add it into the price going forward.

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

Talked to the guy and he has decided to send the doors back with a signature required
< which i agree also, and i will send the money as soon as i have the doors back , so as of now all should end good... i think he may have read the posts here, thanks Barners

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

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The Seller pays the transaction fees when using PayPal, unless the buyer agrees to pay them, Or if the buyer checks the box, saying this transaction is with friends or family, then the fees are waived.

If the buyer is reading this, he should learn, that he should have offered to pay the transaction fee, because once he checked the (friends box), he relinquished his ability to get PayPal to help him settle any dispute.

Now, he needs to hope he gets a fair settlement, once he returns the parts.
The buyer is a FordBarn member too, so I hope this dispute turns out fairly.















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Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

Only one way to go - No doors returned and in your hands, no refund...

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

I would think the doors are going to be expensive to return, perhaps you could offer him a discounted price refund for the doors and he keeps them. He did find errors that were not mentioned and you don't want the doors (otherwise you wouldn't have sold them). He is going to be out the cost of shipping them doors twice for something that was not disclosed to him. I personally would try to talk to him over the phone (like a gentleman, if it turns into an argument end the call and wait for the doors to show up)
I have no idea of the condition of the doors or the price agreed upon. I do think they could be repaired and reused. I'm sorry to say but I hate shipping cost especially if I have to pay it twice for something that isn't up to my standards. I've sold plenty of parts here on the barn, plenty of times (not always) I've listed a 100% refund of their initial payment including shipping one way, if not satisfied.
I'm not saying you have to refund his shipping, just maybe offer some money back and he keeps the doors. Ask him what he feels the fair value of the doors are and go from there. Hopefully you guys can both work this out so there are two winners.

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

But the buyer wants me to refund his money before he sends the doors back, he says im out of line asking for the process to take that route,

He trusted you with his money when he bought the doors. Why wouldn't he trust you again to give him his money back by simply returning the doors? I agree with you...

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

When I sell something here on FB, I give the buyer several choices for method of payment, one being by PayPal as long as I do not have to pay PayPal's fee, or I tell them I can add a % into the cost of the item that will cover the fee. The buyer usually figures out how to do this on their own, or winds up sending a USPS money order instead, which is one of the three payment options I give them. As a seller, there is absolutely no way that I would agree to pay PayPals fee.

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

you were paid the first time before the doors were sent, so this time its just in reverse, you get the doors and he gets his money, whats his problem, i wouldnt mess with him any longer, tell him its either send doors or your done with him, his choice, As far as pay pal is concerned with draw all the money out of you pay pal account , either send the doors for a refund or keep then, end of conversation

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

I sure hope that all goes well for you. Myself being from Alaska I buy a lot from outside & so far have not had any problems. I pay with credit card or postal money order, but have stayed away from paypal. My son has a pay pal account & I have had him use it for me a few times on ebay but he has never had any problems with them yet. http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif Bill

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

A buyer will almost never have a problem with PayPal! It is the seller who will have the issues. That is because PayPal is weighed in favor of the buyer, if a buyer complains PayPal tends to side with whatever the buyer says and ignore the sellers point of view. So, PayPal is good for a buyer but can be a problem for a seller.

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

Photographs can never represent a part as well as the human eye. When someone purchases something with out the advantage of looking at it, there will always be a chance that there will be a problem. A written description can get pretty close as long as a person lists all discrepancies with the part/s for sale. This description can be used in a defensive dispute situation if it is accurate enough. A bad or misrepresented description is not good for either party and leaves the buyer with the upper hand in a dispute but only if PayPal is involved. A person has to represent their for sale item well or they deserve what they get in a dispute.

Shipping now days is way out there so that is always another factor in a PayPal dispute. Folks that sell things need to have it in print what there status will be in the event that the buyer wants to return the item. If it is plain that buyer will have to foot the bill for return shipping then he should know that he is taking a chance by purchasing something sight unseen. Most of us have probably been burned in purchases before. Everyone handles buyers remorse in different ways too.

If the world was a perfect place the buyer would be on the hook for at least half the return shipping for buying sight unseen and the seller the other half for giving a less than adequate description but that just isn't the way it works in the real world. Most sellers will not eat the return shipping at all and that's OK as long as it is somewhere in writing.

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

IMHO: This might be the best solution if you are both in agreement. Have him send you pictures of the doors so you can make sure of their condition as recieved. Bill

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

And there you have it. Using the "friends and family" pay method is a very good indicator that you MAY be shady and willing to cut corners because you have already agreed to cheat PayPal out of the fees they have earned for providing you both with a service. When you do this you have nothing to bitch about if it comes back on you.

The flip side is the buyer is in the same boat as you,or he wouldn't have agreed to cheat Pay Pal out of their fees.

I am honestly not trying to be insulting because I think most people who do this don't even think about it enough to realize it is a form of cheating or stealing,and most who do justify it by telling themselves "They are a multi-million dollar operation,so they can afford it."

BUT...,the fact is that cheating and stealing are still cheating and stealing and it makes no difference if it is Bill Gates you are stealing and cheating,or a homeless orphan.

Which is why the seller can't afford to take a chance on sending the money back before he gets the doors,and the buyer can't afford to take a chance on getting his money back if he sends the doors back first.

It's not the end of the world and it's not something that puts you in the league of a master career criminal,but what it can be if you think about it rationally is a learning moment. From now on do things they way they are supposed to be done,and you will have options available to you if there is any quarrel. This applies to both buyers and sellers.

And "YES,I HAVE done this myself." I did it once,and was lucky enough I got away with it. The parts were delivered to me and they were as described. I will never do it again,though. The worry about not having any recovery options combined with the guilt just isn't worth it to me.

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

...I learned something today concerning the PayPal " Friends & Family" deal, and I'll bet others did, too. I'll bet PayPal will see an increase in their transaction fees after this enlightening discussion.

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

I had a guy do a payment as a "gift" to dodge the fees, and then he put "for fenders" in the Comments box for the payment. PP isn't stupid, if they see something like that, they might take away both participants' rights to use their system. Not worth it to me to save $3 or $4.

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

Great advice. A cheater is a cheater (sorry Yogi, RIP).

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

PayPal makes their money from balances left in your account. I have quite a bit in my account just like the bank, I have a large sum balance and only withdraw to make car part purchases. When you pay the 3% you are buying their protection, if you don't trust the person your buying from this is usually a good idea. I don't consider it cheating to send or receive money as a gift.

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

Would be interesting to hear from the buyer... If he/she's actually following this.

Sure it will turn out somewhat decent for both.

Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

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That has to be BS.

PayPal DON'T ask the BUYER to pay any fees,
they only ask the seller to pay fees.









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Re: About to have a problem with a ford barner
 

As far as I know or in most cases its the seller who doesn't want to pay the fees ,since its part of Pay-Pall way of paying there wages etc I think its there call and it should be paid .I buy and sell through Pay Pal brake systems and never really had a problem , I have brought truck cabs etc of photos from the USA and have never been disappointed .The only one recently was in my own back yard ,Australia! ,the guy didn't get his 36 brake kit .He opened a dispute with papal ,for my side of the story they wanted tracking # etc I could only supply a post office receipt ,but on looking into it his Papal address was not in full as copyed from PP it had no state specified ,so the product is floating around out there some were .so in this case its the buyers fault ,PP was not interested in my side so I waved the amount and will claim on insurance .Ted