1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

I installed a newly rebuilt engine in my coupe over 20 years ago, but never fired it up. After retiring, I wanted to get it going. I added a fuse block, new coil, points, point block,condenser, plugs, lower distributor plate, pigtail, distributor cap, etc. I also replaced the carburetor with a rebuilt one, fixed some leaks and so on. I started the car several times. I wanted to test out the brakes and clutch, so I drove it down the street a couple of blocks and went back to the house. It stopped running and I haven't been able to start it since.
Voltmeter checks OK in all places, except that I get no (actually extremely little) voltage on the point arm, the points won't spark, and there is no spark when the high tension lead from the coil is grounded on a head bolt while turning the engine over. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

Check the little wire under the distributor plate first. Notorious for shorting out under there.

Steve

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

Steve--
Thanks for the quick reply. Here are some photos. If anyone sees anything that seems like it could be a problem, please let me know. I replaced the lower plate with a new one. The new upper plate was too thick to fit in the groove, so I re-used the old one with new components mounted on it. The old wire was patched with tape, so it was replaced with a new one. Thanks for your help.

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

you say that voltage is good at all places? but no spark...

not sure what you mean by all places, but one should be able to diagnose a no spark condition with a meter or even testlight.. certain things happen differently depending on wether the points are open or closed...

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

Looking at the photos it appears that where the wire attaches to the upper plate might be positioned where it will short out to the casting. Loosen the nut and rotate the wire so the lug is facing inboard. Tighten it, then bend the lug up so it is vertical. This way it will be in a position to not short when you move the spark advance handle. It will also lock the nut into place.

When you have the distributor back together. Place a piece of paper between the points and clip an ohm meter lead to the arm of the points, with the other lead to the casting ground. Move the spark advance arm through its travel to see if it shorts out. If it is good to go remove the paper and with the points open there is still no short, and with them closed it should show continuity.

Tom Endy

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

It's probably not causing your problem but I think you have the flag terminal
on the lower plate wire about 90 degrees off. See the picture of Marco's distributor.

Bob

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

Here is a video on "Ignition 101". It may help. jack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbHQ5CyZQ2I

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

Hi--
Thanks for all the responses. Where the wire attaches to the upper plate, I tried turning the lug and bending it up, but it didn't change anything. Still no spark at points. Here's what I meant by voltage being good at all places: 6v at pass side terminal box nut, 6v at driver side terminal box nut, 6v at pass side of coil, 6v at driver side of coil. But -- with key on and paper between points, no voltage on points arm and no spark when I open points with the paper removed. I had put in a new condenser and replaced it with another new one, but that didn't change anything.

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

ok better information.... are you running an original style pop out ignition switch or a 2 prong after market?

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

with the points open key on the power has to travel through the ignition switch to the dist..
common issues are bad switch
switch terminals touching the fuel tank grounding out
cable screwed to far in the distributor ...
the power then travels thru the lower plate wire to the points arm....

again the points need to be open key on....

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

Hi --
It's not a pop out. It has a plug (almost looks like a piece of pipe with one end threaded) that screws into the distributor base with a plunger and spring on the end. A single wire goes from there to the dash. This is the set-up I've always had on the car.

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

With the key switched on you should have 6-volts at the tip of the plunger. If you do, then the problem is inside the distributor. Somewhere the voltage is shorting, or something is open.

If you do not have 6-volts at the plunger, you are more than likely losing it at the key switch.

Tom Endy

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

The wire that connects the 2 dist plates doesn't look "kosher" to me. Check for continuity from one end to the other. Then bend the wire and ck continuity again. FWIW

Paul in CT

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

Again, thanks for the help--
I do have six volts at the plunger. So I guess the problem is inside the distributor. I'll take it apart again and see if I can discover anything more.
Will let you know.

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

Will someone please tell him to screw the wire with the plunger on it to only screw it in about three turns and no more than that!!

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

i did in my post hopefully he will heed your warning also
looking at his pic it seems to be in pretty far

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

The ignition wire with the spring plunger can push the lower plate tab in against the housing and short out as was mentioned above. Remove the lower plate, and glue a piece of tape on the back side to prevent this form happening, and as said earlier this ignition wire only has to go in a few turns to make contact with the tab. This is very common on the modern style points because there is no condenser on the end of the tab to stop it from moving against the housing inside.

Here is a picture of the under side of the lower plate, the dark area you see on the back of the tab is friction tape glued on for an insulator.

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

Pretty simple. You have a short between the ignition switch and the point arm. Find it and fix it.

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

The reproduction lower plates I've seen are much thinner than an original. I always use an original plate and fasten a new wire to it.
As mentioned, I also think the problem may be the ignition cable was screwed in too far.

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

How little is little? What is the voltage with the points open and with the points closed?

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

Just a suggestion, try starting the car with the dash off. The ignition switch wire attachments may be shorting itself out if it's to close to the gas tank wall. Or one of the wire attachments may be shorting itself out on the ignition switch body

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

Hi everyone--
I want to thank all of you for your suggestions. I learned a lot from you. I never could get the new lower plate/wire setup to work. I ended up using my original lower plate and wire. I also followed the suggestion to loosen the ignition cable. It is only hand tight now. With these steps, I was able to get voltage and spark at the points and a good spark from the coil lead. The engine started right up. It runs a little rough and won't settle down to a low idle. I suspect I need to work on the timing now. Also, the ammeter doesn't show a charge, but the needle moves sharply to the left when I turn on the lights, so I think the ammeter is working. Guess I'll have to check the generator as well. Again, thanks for all your help!

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

Before looking for trouble in the generator just jump across the two cutout terminals while the engine is running and see if it will charge. If it does, then the cutout needs to be worked on.

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

Thanks for your comment. I tried to put a jumper wire across the two cutout terminals. I clipped one end to the BAT terminal, but got a spark when I tried to clip on the other end of the jumper wire. I tested the generator output with an analog voltmeter by connecting the pos lead to the pos battery terminal and the neg lead to the BAT terminal on the cutout. It read 6v. I moved the sliding brush quite a ways in the direction of rotation and output increased to 7v, but the ammeter does not move to show a charge. I also noticed that the cutout cover was loose. A little wiggling and it came right off. I noticed that the black insulating material had cracked near the end on right side. The piece didn't fall out, but is loose and moves when I touch it.
First off, am I testing correctly? Is the cutout bad? Is the ammeter bad? Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks.

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

The BAT terminal on the cutout tells me it's a repro cutout. The BAT terminal is always battery voltage, so you need to read the other side to see what the generator is putting out. If the cutout is good and not a diode cutout, then both sides should read the same voltage, or very close to the same, like 7.2 on the generator side and 7.1 on the BAT side.

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

I used the voltmeter to test both sides of the cutout. I got 6v on the Bat side but nothing on the right side -- the post with the nut where the fork-shaped part from the cutout slides under. I tried an old cutout that I had and got the same results -- no voltage on the right side. Does this mean these cutouts are both bad? The ammeter still didn't show a charge, but the needle deflects sharply to about 10v discharge when I turn on the lights. I appreciate your patience and your helpful responses. Thanks.

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

If these are the reading when the engine is running, you have a bad generator. If this is with the engine off, your cutout is not stuck.

The "forked" part is the part that to the output of the generator. There should be voltage there with the engine running.


http://modelabasics.com/Cutout/Image...%20diagram.gif

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

If the field windings aren't getting power, the generator should still put out 1/2 volt from the residual magnetism. If the generator output is an absolute zero, then the output might be getting shorted by too long a screw on the generator side of the cutout, or lack of insulators on the output post, or a broken wire, or a bad armature.

Remove the cutout from the generator and touch the battery cable to the generator output post of one second, then start the engine and see if the generator has any output. If not, then remove it and check inside for the problem.

Re: 1930 coupe - no spark at points
 

Thanks for the suggestions. I have come to the conclusion that the problem is within the generator. I'm planning to shop for a rebuilt one. Hopefully that will put an end to the problem.
Thanks for all the help, especially with the no-spark problem. The car starts and runs easily now -- couldn't have done it without you.