engine timing
 

Is there an easy way to find TDC required for timing engine. Spent an hour yesterday with no success. Thanks for your help.

Re: engine timing
 

Are you using the timing pin?

http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/timing.htm

Re: engine timing
 

As Ron mentioned, you use the timing pin thats screwed into the timing cover. Reverse it and it should fit into a dimple drilled in the cam gear. If the dimple is too small then a small phillips screw driver may work. Some folks grind a point on the timing pin or use a flashlight and small mirror.

Re: engine timing
 

Yes. Using timing pin. Will try again. Thanks

Re: engine timing
 

Having the plugs out will help, but just slowly pull up on the crank until you feel the timing pin drop into the dimple in the cam gear. At this point the rotor should be in this exact position. Once set, the timing shouldn't have to be messed with again unless the distributor cam has been loosened or removed for some reason.

I think a lot of timing problems arise from people wanting to readjust it when it isn't needed. Timing won't change on it's own, and won't change because a car hasn't been run for 10 years. The points cam can wear and this will make the points gap smaller and retard the timing, but when you readjust the points to .020" your timing will be right where it was set to years earlier. Keep a little lube on the cam and the points rubbing block will have very little wear.

Re: engine timing
 

Don't forget that you're just setting the base, or initial timing to prevent kickback when starting, especially if hand cranking. You need the spark to occur at TDC or slightly after, never before top dead center. Once the engine starts and you move the spark lever, you are no longer at that initial setting. It's rather amusing how some folks get all OCD over setting the initial timing down to half a gnat's eyelash, then pull the spark lever "down 2/3 of the way and leave it there" or some other spot that they just picked out of the air without understanding why. They don't seem to realize that all their fussiness just went out the window!

Re: engine timing
 

On finding TDC: I once had a WHISTLE, that popped onto the compression tester adaptor, it whistled when coming up on compression, BUT, changed pitch when you went past TDC!
Anyone know where I could buy one? P.M. me, PLEASE.
Bill W.

Re: engine timing
 

On my car, I have found it very difficult to find the dimple with the timing pin. I remove #1 spark plug and watch the piston. I find it the most accurate way for me to find TDC.

Re: engine timing
 

Some timing gears have a very small dimple. Use a prick punch to find the dimple and then set the distributor cam.

Re: engine timing
 

Some will use a flash light and a mirror to verify that they have the dimple.
Bob

Re: engine timing
 

If you look into the #1 spark plug hole with a flashlight, you can see the top of the piston when it is full up. Just make sure both valves are down when the piston is full up and you will be done.

Re: engine timing
 

I have used a stubby Phillips screwdriver, and that was the best for me. I could even do that without a helper. I could not get it right with the timing pin.

Re: engine timing
 

Sometimes it helps to find the dimple by removing the plugs, pushing the timing pin in against the gear and then turning the engine over with the crank handle fairly rapidly. You will feel the dimple bump by the pin several times and get a feel for where the crank handle is relative to the dimple location. After that you can slow down and turn it slowly to make the pin drop into the dimple.

Re: engine timing
 

Remember NOT to use the knotch in the cam as an indicator for # 1. It is 180 degrees from the BUSINESS end of the rotor. As a starting point, point the BUSINESS END of the rotor toward the R/F HEADLIGHT.
Ed did his 180 degrees off, blew off the Kzhaust pipe, DESTROYED the muffler & blew big chunks of stuff into his neighbors' garage, across the street!!!
Bill W.

Re: engine timing
 

I'm confused. I thought the cam gear on 4 cycle engines was 2
X the crankshaft gear, so how can you get 180 out?

Re: engine timing
 

Flash light and mirror is how I do mine. It's so easy to partially pass the pin with a shallow dimple.

Re: engine timing
 

I agree with Tom. I don't mess with it much. In his photo you see where the rotor should be.
I turn it over by hand and as it approaches the #1 one terminal as Tom's photo shows I stop. Insert the pin and turn it a dog's hair more, very slowly. You will feel it. Be slow, after it goes over TDC it will get by you.

Re: engine timing
 

The size of the cam gear doesn't have anything with getting 180º out. But, with an 'A' once the cam gear dimple is where it should be [ across from the timing pin hole] it would be very hard to get the timing 180 out. I won't say it would be impossible because people are just about capable of anything. On some other engines it is easier to get the timing 180 out by setting it while the engine is on TDC on exhaust stroke.

Re: engine timing
 

The comment about the 180 degrees referred to the distributor cam. This is the part that the distributor rotor fits into.

Marc

Re: engine timing
 

Meant 2X diameter

Re: engine timing
 

Wrong.

Re: engine timing
 

Well, James, I "THOUGHT" I remembered it being 180 off! Excuuuuuuse me.
Bill W.

Re: engine timing
 

He was looking for a simple way and this thread is 2 pages long? :confused:

Re: engine timing
 

Its easy for us to get carried away, isn't it. Apparently not all read the posts. And as usual the answer is within the first few posts.

Re: engine timing
 

This may not be related to your discussion, however here is a problem I am have on the timing issues...I am having trouble with my 51-52 Merc V8 flathead. It was already in my "46 Coupe when I got it. I can only get it to start with the timing (distributor) advanced quite a bit. It will fire and start up, runs rough. Once I get the timing set, it runs very well, real smooth, however if I turn it off with the timing set, it will not start again unless I advance the distributor again, then repeat everything again. Once it is running and timed, it sounds great, it just won't start back up (Hot or cold) once I shut it down with the correct timing. Does anyone have any ideas on how to get this fixed?

Re: engine timing
 

Surprised no one mentioned, plugs out watching #1 piston coming up to near the top, and inserting the pin, put the car in 3rd gear and slightly roll the car forward finding the dimple. If you go by, roll it backwards. This is an easy one person job.

Re: engine timing
 

I just put the car in third gear and move the car back and forth while pushing on the pin and I find it every time. Using the crank and stopping at the right point is hard.

Re: engine timing
 

46 Ford. You might try posting this on the Early V8 32-53 section This is the Model A section. ;)

Re: engine timing
 

PURDY'S WAY:

The timing instructions that I've seen are very confusing to the unknowing. One of the highly regarded timing instruction states that the sweet spot that the tip of the rotor must point at is only good to get you home. Many that try to follow this one keep trying to get the points to be just ready to open and end up moving the points cam. Moving the points cam off the sweet spot gets the distributor out of time . The points can be adjusted at anytime without loosening and moving the points cam. Ford specs for points gap is anywhere from .018 to .022 . Increasing points gap causes the points to open quicker and advances timing. decreasing points gap causes the points to open later and retards timing . The other popular timing instruction says that the rotor tip should point opposite the number one contact in the distributor. This causes some to think that the rotor tip should point at the number 4 contact in the distributor cap and the timing ends up 180 degrees out of time . Neither timing instruction goes in to any real detail about rotational backlash in the distributor shaft and which direction that the backlash must be in when the points cam is tightened. Actually points gap isn't that great of a cause for the model A timing being that far off , as long as the gap is within Ford specs. The three most important things about model A timing is where the rotor tip points , direction of backlash after the points cam is tightened and that the upper plate has full swing within the window in the rear of the distributor cap. Full swing meaning that the lever on the breaker moves all the way to the right side of the window for retard and all the way to the left of the window in the cap for advance.

I don't set my timing by the points. When the timing pin drops in the dimple of the timing gear, I adjust the points cam so that the trailing tip of the rotor points at the number one contact in the distributor cap. When the cam screw is tightened , there must be no clockwise rotation in the distributor shaft. There is always some rotational backlash in the distributor shaft, sometimes as much as 1/2 inch . In other words, all rotational backlash must be in the counter clockwise direction , where it will have no effect on timing. The reason being is that when the engine runs, the distributor shaft turns in the counter clockwise direction . If clockwise backlash remains, the engine will have to turn to catch up the backlash before the distributor shaft can turn. When the engine must turn before the distributor shaft begins to turn , this causes the timing to be retarded to what ever amount of backlash that had to be caught up before the distributor shaft could turn. This is why direction of backlash is so important. If there is 1/2 inch of backlash in the clockwise direction after the cam screw is tightened, the timing will be so retarded that the engine probably will not even run. If it does run it will be very weak and the exhaust manifold will get red hot. As for points gap, I don't bother with retarding the spark lever. I turn the engine untill the rubbing block on the points is on the highest point on the cam lobe, I don't mess with the cam screw . I loosen the lock screw on the points block and turn the adjustable point untill the gap opens to .022 and tighten the lock screw on the points block. Twenty two thousants is maximum gap acording to Ford specs and advances the timing to the max before there is danger of starter kick back. For me this gives quickest throttle response and gives the most time before the rubbing block on the points wears to the point that the points will have to be readjusted. When the points gap closes to less than .018 it will be time to readjust the points or you will begin to lose power and the exhaust manifold will begin to over heat . Truth be known, the model A will run good as long as points gap is within Ford specs of .018 to .022. Some prefer a more conservative gap of .020. The highly respected method is when the timing is on the mark with the spark lever fully retarded that the points should be just ready to open. This can be correctly arrived at by points gap adjustment. I don't feel that it is worth the trouble and feel that it causes the confusion that ends up with the timing being off. There is only about .004 thousants leway in points adjustment within specs, that minor amount will change constantly as the engine runs and the points block wears . Cam lube will decrease wear and the length before points adjustments will be necessary. I don't believe that the small amount that the gap will fluctuate will be that noticable untill the gap closes to less than .018 .
Last edited by Purdy Swoft; 01-15-2015 at 12:52 PM.

Re: engine timing
 

I sure miss that guy around here!

Re: engine timing
 

Yep, agreed.

He has the best method and the best explanation on timing that I have found to date.
I wish he would return to share more.

Knowledge is wasted...if not passed on