'35 flathead timing
 

I've a '35 flathead with a crab type distributor.
Distributor is a fresh rebuild from Bubba. So right off I'm ruling that as 100% right.
All wires checked. New plugs and coil. Wired correctly. Coil is internally resisted.
What's happening is. I put this new distributor on on it doesn't run well at all!
The distributor I had on the car I had to have the adjusting plate all the way down for it to run.Why?
Before I set the points on the old distributor it ran fine with the adjusting plate in the center.
I've even went as far as pull the timing cover off to see if I've stripped a gear tooth.
All looks good with the timing gears.
What am I missing guys??

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

The point gap directly affects the timing. If it is changed, so is the initial timing changed. I would think that it would be correct from Bubba.

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

I agree its right coming from Bubba. Its why I had him go through it. I'm trying to find out why it runs poorly as set in the center of the adjusting plate. I don't dare to move it on the new distributor when I know its right now.
I feel I'm missing something. I'm real new to the flatheads.

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

At the risk of asking a dumb question,have you tried to hook up a timing light and dwell meter?

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

Be nice if you had a timing mark.

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

If you know the coil is internally resisted have you bypassed the under-dash resistor or is the circuit double resisted?

Lonnie

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

These questions assume you have a 35 camshaft with a press on type timing gear.....

When you had the timing gear cover off, did you make sure the timing gear is pressed on the camshaft hub correctly and the line mark on cam hub aligned with line mark on the steel insert of timing gear?
Also, did the dot/line mark on the cam timing gear (near the outer gear teeth) align with the mark on the crank shaft gear?

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

Thanks Ol'Ron. Yep no timing marks
as for the resister,its bypassed. wire goes from on/off switch to coil directly.
Prior to all this the engine ran fair. I took the dist. off and changed the points because the points were pitted. When I took the dist. off the adjustment plate was near center.
After point change and point adjust as per the 2 ruler method I put the dist back n and it ran terrible.I kept moving adjustment plate until it ran better.
It still missed though.
I sent another dist. to Bubba. I got it back adjustment in center.
I put it on and it runs terrible.
As for timing gears.Ive never had them off and the marks align.
Also I'm unsure what type cam is in her.

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

That is the marks on front of the timing gears align. Is it possible the fiber gear on the cam may have spun on the cam itself?

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

Yes, it is possible for the timing gear to move on the camshaft hub if the press fit is not tight. It is also possible that someone pressed the gear on the cam hub aligning to the wrong marks. There was a thread over a year ago where the OP put up a picture of the front of the engine showing the timing gear, and we could see the timing marks were not aligned properly.

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

Running 6v pos ground. 2.3 ohms resistance.
As to timing marks. I checked this. The marks aligned. Spun the engine around a couple times with the crank. That part checks out.
I've ran the car down the road all last fall and a bit this spring. Ran way better then.
This problem started once I changed points.

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

The coil I have in there is new from Macs. Why are they selling substandard stuff?

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

Have you done a compression test? This will just check the internals of the engine. Then use a large tie wrap in the #1 spark plug hole. Turn the engine CW till it stops, and mark the pully. Turn the engine CCw till it stops, and mark the pulley TDC us in the center of the two marks.
I forgot to add, make a pointer off one of the cam cover bolts.
Now you can see where the ignition is set and what kind of advance your getting.
When setting timing, remove the vac brake line. this will check the machanacal advance. add vac will allow max adv..

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

Thanks Ol' Ron I'll do that.I'll keep ya posted.

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

Ok Ol' Ron ,cold engine compression test shows #1,80 #2,90 #3,90 #4,68 #5,80 #6,85 #7,80 #8,90 I put a teaspoon of 3 in 1 oil down number 4 cylinder waited 2 min. and did test on it again. It went up 8 psi. all cylinders should be 110 at new correct?

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

All right,I did the point and marked the crank pulley. I've made marks at TDC and 4 deg. BTDC. What happening is I spin the engine over a few times by hand crank until #1 spark plug sparks.I marked that spot and took a measurement.Im a total of 12.5 deg ATDC.So minus the 4 deg. I should be at I at 8.5 deg. ATDC. How is this possible?
What could have changed?

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

if you're 12.5 deg after tdc and you should be 4 deg before tdc then you are 16.5 degrees after tdc. (ain't you?). How did you locate tdc to make a pointer and a mark?*

I was thinking that if one set of points were not making contact, would that make it retarded, but I think it would be over advanced, and the dwell would be very short.

Mart.

* I wrote that before reading Ron's method. That's a good method.

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

Im a total of 8.5 deg ATDC. I counted for the already 4 deg BTDC. I wrote it down wrong on my last msg...... oooops!

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

I wrote it wrong too, I meant to say 16.5 degrees after it should have fired, not atdc.

But it doesn't matter. you're still 12.5 degrees late, or 8.5 degrees atdc.

There are 44 teeth on the cam gear. 22 on the crank. if the cam gear was one tooth off (late) then you would be 16.36 degrees late. I would look again at the alignment of your cam and crank. You might be able to degree an exhaust valve through a plug hole and see if the cam timing is straight up or also running late.

Good luck with it.

I didn't take long checking my maths, if anyone can confirm or refute what I said that would be good.

Mart.

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

To start. I took dist. off to look at points.At this point the engine ran fine.Meaning way better then now.Didnt miss,good acceleration.
At this point the adjustment plate on the side of the dist. was real near center.
the points looked pitted so changed them to NOS ford used ones I had.
Also at this point Im very new to the flat head V8. this is my first one.So Im in the very beginning of learning about there workings.
After points changed and adjusted,dist.replaced it had to advance the adj. plate all the way adv. in order for it to run smooth or close to smooth.
This is the beginning of where the problem lies.

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

Sounds like the drivers side set of points are set to wide. Walt

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

This all would have been good to know from the beginning of post. Which type of distributor did you have on the engine to begin with? Early helmet type or later crab? All point sets are not made equally. The used NOS points could have had weak springs, or have been tight on pivot posts, not gapped correctly, or some other problem(s). Also, as someone else mentioned, Bubbas rebuild could have a problem, or that new coil could be an issue. Is it possible to go back to ground zero by installing everything you had when the engine ran good?

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

Make sure your spark plug wires are on the correct spark plugs, and fully plugged it to the cap. 1-4 RH, 5-8 LH front to rear. Typically the crab timing plate is set close to the center. If you have a spare distributor rotor change it out. Check the continuity of the distributor cap, using an ohmmeter from the inside terminal to the plug terminal as well as the coil terminal (want 0 ohms). also check spark plug wire continuity (solid wires with 0 ohms each) Check some of the simple things before removing a timing cover again.

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

If the gap is set to wide, they open earlier or "ramp up" earlier.
Martin.

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

When you said the timing marks lined up. Did you check the marks that alighn the press on cam gear to the cam?
I ask as it can turn or be pressed on wrong, and the distributor that was initially fitted could have had the points adjusted to hide this fact. So the adjustment plate sits where it's supposed to and it runs ok. I have seen this once a good few years ago, was done to sell the car and hide a mistake or issue.
Martin.

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

I agree with Hoop that the thread is pretty confusing...
My standard offer is send the distributor to me and i will check ( readjust if needed) and return the same day i recieve it.
Never know with these things but the very least we can check the distributor for you.
Send them both if ya want and we can adjust them both....
You seem very convinced its spark timing and it very well may be. Gut feelings are more correct than ever .......

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

I feel confident the dist. u sent back to me Bubba is correct. Im sure Im missing something. Ill go through all these tips and ideas and get back.
Thanks everyone!

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

It wouldn't hurt anything to poke a feeler gauge in there. Not to adjust but rather to find out roughly what the gaps are.I'm sure you know this but they do not open and close at the same time and should be measured independently.

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

Just for the sake of discussion here :

The drivers side point set controls actual engine timing ......incorrect gap will retard / advance the ignition timing.
The passenger set control ( or adds to the total dwell) or coil build up time.
Drivers side is set at 22 1/2 degrees of dwell for correct case to engine timing....camshaft to slot to engine cover etc...
Passenger set is then set at 36 degrees total with both sets running.
More than likely 3 out of every 10 sets require bending to get proper alignment of contacts. I think the equipment they are made or bent on is finally getting kinda worn...

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

Hoop, I wasn't asking him to do anything extra, just clarifying what he had checked. And a possible reason for the discrepancies.
Martin.

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

Ok since ive got the grill off and radiator so I could check all these things.
Scooder,I pulled the timing cover off one more time. I wanted to make sure of cam to gear fit since I had most of the front of the car off already.
The cam gear mark to crank gear mark line up.Now there also is a continuation of the cam mark to the center of the cam gear that lines up with the center pressed hub of the cam.Theres a mark on the pressed steel hub of the cam.These also line up.
Are these the marks ur asking about?

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

Is it possible it is off one plug wire behind in the dist.????????????.

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

Ive also checked continuity on the cap. That all checks out good.As for the plug wires,they look to be the carbon type. Im not sure how to check those.
Im going to get to ur sugestions soon Hoop.
The old coil has 2 ohms resistance.The new coil has 2.5 ohms resistance.The wire leading to the coil was going through the original type ballast on the firewall. Ive eliminated the ballast altogether.Ill use the old coil that I started with.

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

Im not sure whats happened here?
I had a lot of great suggestions from Hoop on here.I was systematically going through everyones and his have all disappeared.

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

I just went to check the gear to cam marking on a press on type cam, had a good rummage, can't find one, must be buried deeper than I thunk. Did find some long nose bolt on gear type cams I didn't remember I had though.
I'll have a look for a good pic showing the marks I'm talking about, they van be almost a scratch mark on some.
But yours does sound ok to me.
Your right, a bunch of posts has vanished! Hoops included. Where they gone?
Martin.
ps take bubba up on his offer to confirm what's going on. Else you can be chasing your tail.

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

I looked close and took pics of the timing gears. I wanted to eliminate the gear situation before I went further. The cam gear is a bolt on style.I wish I knew the name brand/lift type just to know.
Ive no clue yet how to post pics.

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

If the cam gear is bolt on, it will only bolt on in the right place, the bolt hole won't line up any other way. Being a 35 I assumed a press on gear. You know what they say about assumption. Is it an aluminium gear on the cam?
I think you've eliminated that issue.
Can you back step to the point it ran best?
I really think you should send it to bubba if only for confirmation.
Martin.

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

The gear on the cam is the fiber type.

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

The question was asked before but not answered. What type of distributor do you have? Helmet? Crab? Postwar?

Lonnie

Re: '35 flathead timing
 

Rob, I will pm you my email address so you can email your pictures to me. Then I could post them here for you. It would be a big help to see some pictures of the front and sides of the engine, the camshaft and crankshaft timing gears with timing marks aligned, the old original distributor, your rebuilt distributor, old and new coils, timing gear cover, distributor adaptor(s) (plates/buttons) if any are used, plus any other pictures that you feel might be relevant for us to see.
It is unfortunate that someone whom you felt comfortable with, as far as help/guidance on this problem, has bailed out on you. Maybe you could work with him directly, on an individual basis, by PM or email.
Lets all keep plugging away together on this until we get your problem resolved..