Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

Looking for quality Non detergent Motor oil in grades sae 30 and 40
I am using Valvoline sae 30 but think I should be using sae 40?

It seems that Non-detergent oil is sold by unusually producers.
Anyone ever use Amalie Oil??
Any suggestions.

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

Non det. hard to find in my area. Just go to a 90 wt. gear oil. I think that is about 50 wt. oil.

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

That being said 'tongue in cheek' right?? I sure hope so:eek:

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

Why do you think that you need to use non-detergent oil?

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

I wouldn't use AMALIE on a squeaky door hinge. First-hand experience many years ago..........baaaaaaaaaaad! DD

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

If you insist on non detergent oil, it's commonly used in air compressors. Not the tool oil, but for the crank case of the compressor itself. Most people under age 90 run conventional oil in these engines today. Some say if it's an old unopened engine that detergent oil can break loose sludge free which then clogs the screen or that the sludge was holding things together in there. The first part of that statement could be true.....

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

Tractor Supply has it

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

I have an original engine car. The car was stored for 20 years without running.
When I purchased the car, I dropped the oil pan and it was not bad.. about and inch of sediment..that was like sand..not greasy sludge. I was told that that type of pan deposit is a result of running non-detergent oil. I got the car running and added a quart of MMO. Now I want to begin frequent oil changes to clean the engine.
Are you telling me that most of you guys running 80 year old engines use regular
bargan basement motor oil? I'm so confused.

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

The "detergent" in the oil is actually additives to combat the contaminants from the combustion chamber that leak past the rings and moisture. If you have already cleaned the pan, use any modern oil that you would consider a "detergent" oil. I wouldn't use "non detergent" in a lawn mower.

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

Do you run regular detergent oil in your 80 year old UN-rebuilt engine?

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

As long as you have de-sludged it, any reasonably good modern oil will be ok.

Anything from the supermarket cheapie to the most expensive one you can find will all work ok. Old engines tend to leak more than modern engines, I use that to support my likeness for oil from the cheaper end of the price scale.

Plus I'm tight.

Mart.

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

Yes, I am running detergent oil in my never rebuilt 63 year old Merc. with 110K on the odometer.
Don't know what "bargain basement oil" is?

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

In the olden days it was fairly common to clean out an engine by running it on a kerosene and light weight oil mixture for a short time. Then drain it out and use regular oil.

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

Not a 4 banger but I do run 10/40 detergent oil in it. Most times I get my oil from wal-mart. They seem to have the most reasonable prices. On occasion the parts stores will run a promotion ad & I will stock up then.

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

Here we go again.

DO NOT use hypoid gear lube in a crankcase just because the viscosity may be of a similar grade to what you want to use. The extreme pressure additive contains sulfur/phosphorus which will dine on your main and rod bearings.

It is true that piston type compressor oils typically don't contain detergents, and can be had in correct viscosity grades for a motor vehicle, however they are often made from naphthenic base stocks that are less thermally stable than the parafinic base stocks that every non-synthetic crankcase oil is made from.

Crankcase oil detergent/dispersants don't act like an often advertised bathroom cleaner.......they are not "scrubbing bubbles". Their primary action is to suspend contaminants (mostly by-products of combustion as correctly noted by deuce roadster). Most dislodging of built up deposits comes from fluid movement.

Putting a "quart" of MMO in an engine would probably cause much more "detergent" like action than regular motor oil since it contains a solvent.

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

Old Ford flathead oil is a lot like Chicago politics.

"Vote early and vote often"
"doesn't matter who you pick, its always the same old BS"

so change your oil often, and because these old engines have fairly loose tolerences and run kind of dirty they will work fine on just about any type of clean oil...detergent/non-detergent. single viscosity vs multi-viscosity, 30w vs 50w

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

Yes. In all three of mine. ;) Walmart, shell rotella 15-40. You cleaned the pan, now run detergent oil. Your sedan will thank you. :)

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

Sorry for bringing it up.
Now I remember the big argument about oils.
I was not asking, if I should use non-detergent. I was asking where to get it.
I know there are many positions on what to use.
One guy even recommended to use synthetics in his model A.
I just do not want to KILL my engine by using the wrong stuff. That's all.
One guy said something last time that really scarred me.
He use a special detergent oil to clean his engine and it clogged the engine up.
When he removed the pan..he found something that looked like black corn flakes and the oil pump screen was also clogged.

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

Even modern "bargin basement oil" is better than the best oil available back in the 30s and 40s.

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

This is 2015 not 1915 Things change in the oil world.

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

I have a '48 F-1. As I read through the Ford service literature of that era ('48-'53) I find that detergent oil was just coming into service. Not mentioned in early literature but recommended a year or two later. It's not a matter of whether it was recommended in the 30's and 40's - it didn't exist!! When it did come on the market Ford embraced it - for the same engines we are running now. Detergent oil doesn't clean the engine - it keeps the sludge from forming. I can't imagine not using it. I run it in my original '48 engine and am happy to do so. I've used it in Model A's, V-8s and old tractor engines. Embrace the new (Late '40s!!) technology!! Same discussion for multi-viscosity (10-40) oils.

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

Great! That will make things a lot easier for me.
Just one last question.
Why do antique auto parts dealers like Mac's still sell the non-detergent engine oil?

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

For the same reason politicians continue to deceive..............despite reality there's a market for it..........

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

Same as the 600w they sell!

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

Non-Detergent is for break in. I wouldn't recommend it for any other use. If you need some, Restoration Supply Company carries it and other harder to find lubricants.

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

Mac's et. al. sell it because people buy it. That's not where you should be going for advice on how to care for your engine!! I don't know why you would use non-detergent oil for break-in, either. What property does non-detergent oil have that makes it desirable for break-in use? Wouldn't the detergent action of the detergent oil keep fine wear particles in suspension better?

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

Great thread, logic has it that keep ing all thad Gunk and ware products in suspension is great for an engine with a full flow filter. However, without the FULL flow filter we just pump all that cr*p through the bearings. Plan a head.

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

Sounds like wise advice...I imagine that my original 1933 model B does NOT have a Full Flow Filter

Thanks Ron, you are a wise man.

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

At the risk of seeming to be Luke taking on Yoda that is perhaps marginally true in some instances, but not as universal as it might seem in the abstract.
It would depend on particle size and molecular weight (don't panic folks, this isn't going to get too wonky). Even if there is a full flow system the oil still changes color dependent on how much stuff/contaminant the engine produces/ingests. Particles smaller than the porosity of the filter media still get through. A large part of why a filter system has a bypass is so that if too much junk accumulates to plug the filter the engine will still get oil; the engineers knowing that "dirty" oil is better than no oil. The dispersant won't hold all particles in suspension either (this goes to the wear particle idea). Higher molecular weight particles will not be held in suspension by the dispersant, and maybe a few will be held "afloat" by fluid flow, but most will likely fall out of the oil flow. If the particle size is smaller than the bearing clearances they will likely flow past those bearing surfaces except in some unusual circumstances. In which case, a non-detergent oil would likely have the same issues. Frequent oil changes in an unfiltered system would help some, but, depending on how much contaminant the engine produces, isn't a complete solution either.

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

Ron, I have a non-Ford vehicle that has an automatic transmission in which only 3 qts out of a total of 7 qts can drain out. To change that fluid, the factory specifies to drain and refill 3 times, with a short drive in between each refill, the object being to reach a point at which further purges become pointless, as the fluid has been almost completely changed over. I use this as an example to compare with the bypass filters used on our Fords... With a total of 5 qts in the engine, it's been estimated that it takes only a 10 minute drive to circulate all the oil through the filter.

The non-detergent oil of yesteryear also kept impurities in suspension, but only until the engine was shut down, at which time the impurities slowly began to sink to become sludge on all horizontal surfaces of the engine. This culling of impurities occurred overnight, thereby allowing a somewhat cleaner oil to begin the new day with.

As a side note, all full flow oil filters have a built-in bypass that allows oil to return to service without first being filtered. Although intended to pass increasingly more oil as the filter gets dirty, we as consumers have no way of knowing when and if those filters are actually full flowing.

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

Uncle Bob, I didn't really steal your thunder, you posted while I was typing! At least we know that we are in agreement on the important stuff!

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

"we as consumers have no way of knowing when and if those filters are actually full flowing."
Not entirely true, the filters have a by-pass pressure rating, so you at least know the pressure (in the filter) it will start to by-pass at.

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

"...the filters have a by-pass pressure rating..."

I'm sure this is true, but where is this information available to the public, and how reliable is it?

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

Oi-vey....I wish I knew what I was doing!

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

I run diesel rated oil in my flatheads and other old engines. Something I read about 'flat tappet' engines and more zinc in the diesel rated stuff. Just so happens with a bunch of diesels around, it's what's on my shelf. Just sayin'....

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

So, under any circumstances you should change oil frequently unless you've managed to rig up a full-flow filter! The sludge-producing elements go out with the oil if they are suspended in the detergent oil!

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

non detergent oil has no anti acid, no anti wear, no anti moisture, no anti foaming agent, and absolutely no cleaning agents (detergents) you have a $4000 to $5000 engines, so go ahead and use non detergent oil, it wont hurt to have a new engine every 5000 miles or so, I love these guys who read that 80 year old maintenance guide, and think its gossible, they have no idea how much better oils and greases are now compared to back then, they ran that oil because that's all they had, non detergent oil is just refined oil with nothing in it to protect your engine that's why the 500 mile oil change was recommended, even the cars in the 50's with out filters were told to change the oil every 1000 miles because of better oil

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

I didn't say hyproid gl. 4 or 5. I said GEAR OIL. A 90 wt. gear oil is the same as a 50 wt non detergent. oil. Anyway it was back in the day. OH my god not the oil story. LOL. He didn't ask what to use he wanted to know where to get non deterg. oil.

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

My engines tend to run on a through flow constant loss system.

Re: Non-Detergent Motor Oil
 

The oil is always fresh that way!