head removal
 

I'm going to attempt to remove the right hand head on my stock 1951 flathead V8 to inspect the exhaust valve after a failed leak down test on cylinder number 3. After reading the many posts on this site about removing broken head bolts I know I need to be careful and have a plan before I just attack each bold with a socket and a breaker bar. Any ideas on how I should proceed will be greatly appreciated.

Re: head removal
 

I would use an impact wrench. Slow and easy.

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Ditto

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Unfortunately I do not have access to an impact wrench.

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Looks like I can rent an impact wrench, what would be best air or electric, I do have a compressor.

Re: head removal
 

Air , start low pressure.

Re: head removal
 

When I broke my dizzy hold down bolt I had to remove the head to fix it. In the process I broke 3 head bolts (should of used a impact wrench) =/ anyways...if you look on Reds Heads website you will find a process of extracting the broken bolts in your block while the engine is still in the car. This worked wonderfully for me =) I would even lend a fellow Ford Barner the needed sleeves for drilling mentioned on Reds website.
Good luck!
Also.. I've read of people blowing them out with a torch (scary) or welding a washer and a nut to the broken bolt. Personally I've had no experience with either of those.
Randy

Re: head removal
 

If they start to turn hard, turn them back in a little and spray penetrent on the shoulder, then back out. The rust jams the threads and then they will break...... MARK

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Lets get back to your first post. you mention leak down test. before I'd remove the head I'd put an adapter in the spark plug hole, turn engine so piston is close to TDC and pump air in the cyl, if it blows out exh. pipe it's ext valve, if it blows up carb it's intake, if it blow alot into the base it's the rings. Walt

Re: head removal
 

Walt thanks for the reply--I put 100 lbs pressure into cylinder #3 and air came out exhaust on TDC. I also turned engine by hand with pressure on #3 and air came out exhaust no matter what position the crank was in.

I will use impact tool on head bolts but with engine in the car it looks like I will not be able to get to several of them with the impact tool. Is there any other tricks I can use if a few of them give me trouble, such as heat or penetrating oil?

Thanks Bill

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Re: head removal
 

Not sure . if it's a later block. 49 /53 does it have studs or nut's on the head bolts. if it has nuts[ not studs]. If you have to use the breaker bar. slow, back it out some then in. use panther piss. and some heat. slow is the name of the game.

Re: head removal
 

If it is just a stuck valve, have you considered taking the intake manifold off first to see if it can be unstuck? To replace it you will have to take the manifold off anyway, might save you the hassle of wrestling the head off.

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The head is put on with bolts not studs. The cylinder #3 does have 40 lbs with the compression test but does not fire at idle, but must fire at higher rpm because plug is clean and looks like the other 7 when removed. Thinking the valve is closing but not sealing completely. Car starts and runs well except for a very rough idle. No change in rpm at idle when #3 plug wire is removed.

Re: head removal
 

You have a compressor, and no impact gun. Good grief for 20 or 30 bucks, get a cheap harbor freight one. I'm still using my cheap HF one 20 years later.

Re: head removal
 

Just getting back into the car hobby after two many years busy raising kids and working. I'll be updating the tool box sooner than later. I'm having fun working on the 51 Victoria, I owned this same make and model 55 years ago and would pull the heads off at that time with no hesitation. Smarter and more cautious today.

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That's a good looking 51. Just dive in. It's more fun doing the restore than it is after it's done. I thought I would drive mine like I did back in the day. didn't work out that way. HMMMMM might be something to do with being 76. I would run some . at. fluid down the carb. fog up the area.

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SOFAKING suggests removing the intake manifold first to check valve before removing head. If the problem is a stuck valve will I be able to move the valve from the intake manifold opening to un-stick it? I'm thinking the valve must be closing almost all the way to still have 40 lbs on compression check.

Re: head removal
 

Maybe. You should at least be able to see if it's indeed stuck or sticking.

Jack E/NJ

Re: head removal
 

No you can't see anything in the intake valley, except if the lifter, and valve stem is going up and down. You could check to see if it had extra clearance. that would indicate it may not be closing all the way. Just pull the head and intake and get it over with. Sounds easy to say if I don't have to do it, LOL

Re: head removal
 

I don't think they're just gonna snap off at the first attempt to break them loose. It takes some serious force to break one of those bolts.

I believe that most bolts break when they begin to turn, get jammed, and then you try to force them to turn.

That being said, get a 1/2 drive breaker bar and try to snap them loose. If they turn and then jam, spray with lots of penetrating oil and use a back-and-forth motion. Never try to force a bolt that binds after turning a bit. Always go back in the opposite direction.

Add lots of patience. Every time I break something it's because I forgot to add patience, or the patience I had just ran out.

Re: head removal
 

I finally got back to my problem with low compression in cyl #3. I removed head with a breaker bar with little problem, all 24 bolts came out. I found #3 exhaust valve looking really bad, see pictures. I used a fiber brush on a drill along with a small wire brush several chemicals and a lot of time and effort to clean under and around the valves as they were open. After inspecting the seat as best I could with a mirror and flashlight I re-installed the head and prayed. The praying did not help. The compression in #3 went from 40 lbs to 30 lbs. Now I'm back at square one. Car is back as it was, starting and running good but not firing at idle. Any suggestions, maybe the pictures will help.

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no luck uploading pictures--2.38 mb

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pictures I hope

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That is an intake valve.

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I agree with Andy. The valve on the far right on the second picture is #3 exhaust.

Re: head removal
 

problem does not change ether way?

Re: head removal
 

That is an intake valve, you stated air coming out of the exhaust.
Pull the head (again) and intake manifold, then grab a spring compressor, normal G shaped works, no need for special "flathead" compressor, pull the exhaust valve and have a proper look at it and the seat in the block. You may (hopefully) get away with grinding the valve in. The seats in the block are hard on most 8BA's, so hopefully ok,
you may need a new valve.
Tell us what you find.
Martin.

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Thanks for setting me straight on valve location. I think it's called learning the hard way. Before I do this again and after seeing the pictures do you all think the loss of compression from 80 to 30 lbs over a period of 12 months could be caused by this valve not seating properly?

Re: head removal
 

hard to tell exactly from pic but it looks as if valve is tweaked meaning bent on the stem.if you do not have a weak or broken valve spring then I would pull the spring off and try moving the valve up and down if bent it will never seat.it should be snug due to the guide but if not bent it will move by hand.the problem is that if the spring was broken or weak on start up with idle a little high if using choke the spring will have let the valve hanging and when the piston came up it does not take a lot to bend the valve stem.I have seen it where it hardly leaves a mark on the piston without a very close look.something to look at easy to do without any special tools.

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Sooooooo..........ya really think THAT piston might have kissed the valve in this FLATHEAD engine to bend the valve? DD

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This is a flathead, the piston can not hit the valve no matter were the valve is.

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Rethink the piston the valve situation.

R

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I think some times we all speak before we think. If it were a two stroke it wouldn't hit either.

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Yes. The valve could be burned or you could have pitting or a crack in the valve seat. It could also be a gummed-up valve guide and judging from your photos things were pretty gummy in there.

I hate to say it, but a similar loss in compression helped me find a crack that eventually got repaired.

Re: head removal
 

Great advice from all, I'm going to take a break and just enjoy the car for now. I'll re-evaluate in the fall if it continues to run OK till than. Maybe a more extensive re-do is the smart thing to consider if Its going to get torn down that far. I'll re-post later, thanks again.

Bill

Re: head removal
 

Do you have adjustable lifters? You might have an adjuster backing out, holding the exhaust valve open.

No matter what the problem is, driving it will not make the situation better.

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Observing valves with head off they all open and close tightly when turned over by hand. Car is stock as far as I now so I assume the lifters are not adjustable.

Re: head removal
 

When using an impact gun, I would suggest first trying to tighten the bolt before trying to loosen it. Worked for me.