model a original head
 

HI: Does any one know how to get the head off the motor without cracking the head.

It's been on there about 35+ years and I'm at the end of trying to get it off I have tried everything I can think of and a few other things and not a thing.

It just don't want to move at all I don't have a head puller but someone told me that won't make a difference anyway.

And from what I have seen on the internet you don't need one anyway you don't even need a chain like I thought or a picker like I thought.

But I havn't tried what I seen on the net with the fire truck and a screw driver is not what I would do.

But nothing works for me as of yet what I seen on there looks like the head would crack if I did it that way.

But thanks let me know

Re: model a original head
 

A head puller makes a HUGE difference! Many not work on a given few, but I can assure you it has worked for me, even on boat anchors that have been outside for 50 years....

Re: model a original head
 

The way I removed mine, which is probably the wrong, was I kept spraying the studs and around the head with PB Blaster a couple times a day. Then I took a wide paint scraper and knocked it in the corners of the head lightly, and it came loose. You don't want to tap it in to far because it can cause damage to the valves. I hit the head lightly and sprayed PB Blaster in the areas I was tapping on, then I just kept going around to each corner tapping lightly and it came off without bending the corners of the head and block . I know I will probably will hear about it on here, but thats what I did.

Re: model a original head
 

I'm going to try these Idea's and see if it works but I don't have a head puller to do the one Idea or a picker to lift the motor a little for lift on the head.
I haven't tried the one idea but I think I will try it and see what happens I just think the head is rusted to the studs more then I thought.

Re: model a original head
 

Spray all the studs with Kroil and let it soak in, then as Steve said, a head puller is your best bet. I made my own head puller like the one the dealers sell, plus I made another smaller puller to fit over the water pump studs so I get additional puller power. Even with a head puller installed, on one engine I still had to go around the gasket and tap in thin knife blades to get the head loose.

Re: model a original head
 

I tried the Kroil for days 4 days and I din't think it did a thing and a rubber mallet to pound the corners of the head.

I still think the head is rusted to the studs a lot more then I thought I have to find something better then Kroil to spray on the studs to brake it lose better then Kroil did or does.

Re: model a original head
 

Try a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF. Build a "dam" around each stud with putty and fill with the mixture and let sit or apply with a small brush.
Paul in CT

Re: model a original head
 

I tiped a LOOOONG thing about how we got Vermin's head off, "maybe" search will bring it up??
Basically, bought a cheep Oriental Meat Cleaver, the kind that goes from a razor like edge & up to about 1/8" thick.
Cut it into 4 wedges with a cut-off wheel & drove them into the head gasket packing at each corner. They surely can exert "thousands" of lbs. of pressure! We had NARY even a scratch on the head or block!!! The culprits were MANY studs rusted to the head.
Bill W.
(WE EVEN DISPELLED THE THEORY THAT CUCUMBER JUICE WOULD REMOVE RUST!)

Re: model a original head
 

I used a piece of rope I put down through the spark plug holes and rotated the crank.

Re: model a original head
 

Another strategy is to put the nuts back on, but a few turns from tight, then with a small hammer tap sideways from every direction ---adding your favorit penetrating oil, this will help loosen the bond of the stud to the hole,

Re: model a original head
 

I always soak the studs with Kroil for a couple of days. Then use a bottle jack between the generator mount and the bottom,front of the head and jack it up until it breaks loose.

Re: model a original head
 

What about draining the water, loosening the head nuts a bit and then starting the
engine to 'pop' the head loose? Or is too crazy?

Re: model a original head
 

I too fought a head. I did loosen the nuts and started the car, went "WHOOSH. "
That was that, three hours later with a head puller and maple wedges it was off and yes I soaked the studs for a couple of weeks. it was a chore but looking back on it is was kinda fun.

Re: model a original head
 

I did this without starting by leaving the pop-out switch OFF - just turn the engine over by pushing the starter button.

But this may be a former boat anchor hoping for a new life on America's roadways.

Joe K

Re: model a original head
 

"What about draining the water, loosening the head nuts a bit and then starting the
engine to 'pop' the head loose? Or is too crazy?"

Nope, experienced mechanics have been doing it that way forever

careful jamming wedges under the head to pry it off:
we already have a damaged valve on another thread from someone doing this
oh you mean there are valves under there?

Re: model a original head
 

I lifted the whole front of the truck up by 2 eye hooks in the sparkplug holes,the head never budged,soaked and heated studs for weeks,nothing,finally drove wedges between head and block got it off only took a month.

Re: model a original head
 

I hope it won't take that long but did I forget to say the motor is OUT of the car it's just the motor and tranny only.
And I have NO hoist like I said before to use a head puller or anything else like that and NO chain or any kind of hoist to use to do anything like that to pull the head off in any way.
I can only do it without the hoist or puller or the eye hooks that go into the spark plug holes I've seen on the net where they took the head off without anything like the puller or hooks.
But there's got to be a better way of doing it then they did on the fire truck watching that over and over you would think that would crack the head or scratch the crap out of it or the motor itself.
That's NOT the way I want to do it there's got to be another way of doing it I know a picker would help but don't have one or a hoist so I have to do it the old fashion way and what is that way is the thing I have NO clue on that one never did this before had no reason to do it.

Re: model a original head
 

If the motor will turn over Post #9 rope down spark plug hole might work

Re: model a original head
 

Yes it turns over by hand only it's out of the car and no battery to hook up to it so hand is the only way I have to turn it over with. But a rope thing has any one ever tried that and does it work all the time or just by chance and can you put it down all 4 of them or just one of them at a time.
And how much rope do you put in there 3 feet or more or how much rope and what one can you or should you put it in or just put it in the end ones only.

Re: model a original head
 

You are limited with the engine out of the car. I would do what Kurt said, screw the nuts on and hit them sideways to jar the rust loose (hopefully). If fact I'd give it a few rattles with an air hammer. Lots of Kroil first though.

Re: model a original head
 

I'm going to try the rope thing in the spark plug hole and the eye bolts in the spark plug holes for prying on the head. I just hope I can find the #9 rope that is and the eye bolts for the spark plug holes there 7/8" spark plugs as I was told I just hope I can find something that big for them.

Re: model a original head
 

If the starter is still there just hook some jumper cables to your car battery and the starter. 12 volts won't hurt the A starter.

Re: model a original head
 

Stuff the cylinder with rope and use the piston to force a stuck head. I wonder if there's any chance of bending a rod? :confused:

Re: model a original head
 

Thorough soaking with Kroil is a must. Unfortunately there are lots of poor you tube videos out there.. That one wasn't the best for sure. I like the ding on the headlight with the hammer. OUch! and personally I don't like putting that much pressure on a cast iron manifold that could break or punch a hole and then you're in for more than a head gasket.
The wedge up front isn't a bad idea.. Personally have I use lots of wedges between the layers of head gaskets...from large screwdrivers to carefully placed larger wedges. I recently obtained one of the head pullers but have only used it once. They are an excellent augmentive tool. Removing each one is different. Some are easy.. some are very difficult. Of course you know where the valves and the weak areas are... or you shouldn't be doing it...Once it moves its a matter of using enough leverage force front to back to get it up.

In my opinion the spin the engine thing has never worked for any head that is really stuck to begin with. And... not sure about the rope trick but it doesn't sound good either. Yes, how about that babbitt and rods... and then you have all the rope crap to deal with that will just compress.

Tom.. I think you were at last years national when I did Jim Thomas's on his yellow cabriolet that had a blown head gasket. He said it had been on 25 years. Start to finish it was about an hour job... but it went like clockwork. Two days before I did one that had only been on 3 years and it was enormously difficult and took 4 hours to get the head off. Nevertheless... it came off. You just have to be patient, methodical, and prudent in your actions for removal. If your club has a read remover tool I would suggest obtaining it for use as an option. Kroil, kroil.. and more kroil!

Larry Shepard

Re: model a original head
 

May I ask why are you pulling the head off in the first place ??

Re: model a original head
 

I just pulled a head that had been on the car 22 years using the head puller that Snyders sells. It came off easy as pie. Much easier that the way I used to do it with putty knives and wedges. This tool is not cheap, but it sure does work well.

I don't mean to be a smart alec, and forgive me if I've misread your posts, but you do not need a chain hoist or "picker" to use the head puller. Yes, it can also double as an engine lift bracket, but you do not need a hoist to use it as a head puller. Again, sorry if I've misunderstood what you've said.

All of the ideas posted about using penetrating oil and carefully using wedges on the corners of the block are good. I suggest you follow those, but also invest in or borrow a good head puller. I think you will find it money well spent.

W. Michael

Re: model a original head
 

spell
Yes, absolutely, a rod could bend..... Not the thing to do IMO.

The key is a head removal tool and/or patience, soaking down the stud holes with Kroil or PB Blaster and then repeated jarring with a mallet on the sharp 4 corners of the head and up at the front near the water pump area. The area around the dist. hole is pretty strong too. The flat areas between the stud bosses are weak. It may have to soak for a 2 weeks, who knows. Be patient.

Re: model a original head
 

What does it matter if you do crack the head? Standard heads are as cheap as chips and plentiful, what with everybody putting High Compression heads on. Drive in a wedge and show it who's boss.

Re: model a original head
 

Do not drive a wedge in or any hard object under the head
this is how decks get damaged sometimes beyond machining
make yourself a puller some steel a few bolts and your done

Re: model a original head
 

The reason why I'm taking the head off in the first place in the get the one stud out for the pop out I thought I had mentioned that before doesn't matter and to get rid of all of the crape in there. There's a lot of rusty crap in there and who knows what else the motor hasn't run for about 18+ years so who knows what's in there But I did try the wedge thing under the water pump NOT a good idea with the water pump on there but I did find out one thing though the water pump housing has a crack in it. So now I need a another original water pump housing E-Bay time after I get the head off but Rick Black just sent me a thing for a head puller that I have never seen that type before but I like the idea of it. It uses the spark plug holes as the others do but this one sits on top of the head stud bolts also that you just keep tightening all of them down the bolts on the spark plugs that is. It's made by a Gordon Baverstock from Canada as I was told I think I'm going to make one just like that out of 1/2" steel plate as he did and see what happens he said you can put 20,000.00 lbs on it to pull the head off I don't know why it has to be that thick but it is. I do know original heads are NOT cheap any more like they used to be years ago you could pick up a good original head for less then $100.00 now there about $300.00 as I have found anyway.

Re: model a original head
 

Re: model a original head
 

You got that right ????

Re: model a original head
 

I made my head puller from 1/2" steel plate.
You'd probably do better just buying the water pump or other parts you need right from Bert's (800-321-1931) instead of ebay.

Re: model a original head
 

Water pump housings are fairly easy to break, as are distributor housings at the base.

If you want the head to come off much more easily next time, then grease the body of the studs with anti-seize compound before putting the head back on. Apply some to the base or coarse threads as well but keep it off the fine end threads or nut end of the studs as it will cause you to over-torque.

Re: model a original head
 

It also helps to not screw the stud in tight. If you do it can cause it to tilt to one side. If you have a lot of them tilted, it will make the head come off even harder.

Re: model a original head
 

How would that happen? The nut is supposed to turn on the stud, that is, on the fine thread. Torque settings are for the fine thread, not the course one. That would not hold the head down tight enough. IMO

Re: model a original head
 

Thank you very much I didn't know that one I was planing on putting anti seize on the studs but I would of put it on all the threads and now I won't. Thanks again reggiedog

Re: model a original head
 

You must not have much experience.

Anti-seize compound or any substance that lubricates threads will increase the pressure of a torque specification, sometimes drastically. Or in other words, that 55 pounds of torque applied to the head nuts may be like torqueing them to nearly 90 or better due to the reduced friction from the lube and depending on the lube's ingredients.

Torque values are for dry thread unless otherwise noted. However, if a lube is used, such as Permatex anti-seize, Never-sieze, Moly-Cote etc., etc., torque values should always be reduced accordingly, anywhere from 25 to 60 % depending on the manufacturer's recommendation; except for using light motor oil which improves torque accuracy somewhat and has limited effect on increasing the pressure.

Anti-seize applied to the base coarse threads will help to prevent the stud locking in the hole from rust. Of course if the stud boss has been broken off on the bottom, exposing the threads to the water jacket, then a coating of anti-seize may not last too long but it would still be better than nothing. RTV would be the best choice in such cases.

Re: model a original head
 

Are you saying RTV would be better then anti seize for the coarse threads that go into the block itself ????. Or put it on both fine and coarse theads and yes I'm NOT a pro at this this is the first time I had to take the head off the motor. But I'm learning a lot in doing this but as I found out I don't have the wright tools to do it so now I'm in the prosses of making some of the tools like the head lifter. I just bought some of the bolts to make it but I can't find the spark plug foulers for the plugs yet not many of them are NOT made for the 7/8" plugs around here so I have to order them I just have to find out where to order them first.

Re: model a original head
 

[QUOTE=reggiedog;1047231]Are you saying RTV would be better then anti seize for the coarse threads that go into the block itself ????. Or put it on both fine and coarse theads and yes I'm NOT a pro at this this is the first time I had to take the head off the motor. QUOTE]


Please take the time to reread what I have already posted.

Yes, RTV is the thing to use on the COARSE threads of the stud that go in the block IF the stud boss has been broken off on the bottom or is cracked or contains pinholes from rust out exposing the threads to the water jacket. The stud bosses, below the deck, that contain the lowest block threads were made solid and are not exposed to the water. However, over the last 80 plus years, many have rust pinholes in the iron that let water seep in and many are flat broken off on the end exposing the hole openly to the water. Consequently, the water will find its way up the stud and leak. RTV is used to seal it off.

Don't put anything on the fine end nut threads of the stud other than light motor oil. Anything else will affect the torque and the value must be reduced to prevent over-torque as has already been discussed in my other posts.