Buying a car site unseen.
 

About 18 months ago I bought a 39 Ford deluxe 2 door sedan from what I thought was a reputable antique car dealer. It was reported to be a quality frame off restoration and the only problem was the speedometer did not work. Pictures were beautiful. Undercarriage looked better than new. I have had a lot of problems bringing the car to a nice driver condition. Not to bore you with all the problems I have spent an additional $6500 of unanticipated repairs and still have half a dozen items that I will fix. Bottom line---If buying a site unseen car be sure to hire a good inspector before you settle on the purchase. Regards: Jon Laing

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

Buying a car unseen, marrying a spouse unmet, and picking your nose in public generally leads to some level of embarrassment.

Sorry you are having so much trouble. Sometimes even after a high-level visual inspection, a buyer finds surprises. I'm afraid you're not alone.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

Years ago I purchased a car on Ebay, site unseen. Pictures looked great, description sounded spot on. When the car arrived I was very lucky. The only untrue description was the fact the floors were pin holed on the passenger side.
But the scariest part of the story was when the transport company driver asked me if I had gone to see the car prior to buying it. He said there have been numerous times people would hire a cross country transport company to pick up a car, and when the driver would get to the pick up address, it was just a vacant lot. He said I was lucky there actually was a car to pick up.
So, would I do it again? Certainly not!!!

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

"But the scariest part of the story was when the transport company driver asked me if I had gone to see the car prior to buying it. He said there have been numerous times people would hire a cross country transport company to pick up a car, and when the driver would get to the pick up address, it was just a vacant lot. He said I was lucky there actually was a car to pick up."

I have a friend who experienced a similar situation. He bought the vehicle sight unseen from a "reputable dealer". Flew in to the nearest airport, got a cab to the address listed and it was a vacant lot. I think he was out about 10 grand.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

I have purchased my 38 Ford Pickup on Craiglist, My 57 Wagon on the Hamb and my 54 Studebaker on Craiglist.

Each vehicle I had a member of the Ford or Hamb Forum melp me out. Each one turned out just great.

Always try to find someone to look at the vehicle. and get as many pictures as well as info.


My best one was when I helped my wife's boss with a 64 Corvair convertible that was in New Mexico. Claimed to be all original and original paint........ HAd a guy from the Hamb check it out and he said........ If you don;t take it ""I am Going to Buy it""

thats all my wife's boss needed to hear:cool::cool:

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

I think you must PERSONALLY do the inspection. I had a reputable expert look at a vehicle for me and found the actual product to be far below the anticipated level when the transporter arrived.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

Sorry about your bad deal,got a couple questions. Was anything in writing, was any research done on dealer in question before purchase.Have you reported the fraud to any one.What was he reply when you told him about the shape of you purchase are was he dealer at all.I like to have trust in my fellow man ,but you can get burned when you don't cover ass.Post dealers name so he might think about doing it again and file some charges of fraud .I would never buy car sight unseen are looked at by a friend.But some people do ,if so you need to your home work before spending that kind of money. Good luck to you.There a lot of bad people out there keep your guard up.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

That's unfortunate.My neighbor bought an original twin cam MGA from a guy on the east coast that was supposed to be in "restorable condition".The front end and frame had been altered for a later engine.When it was rolled off of the transport, rust was tinkling down from everywhere and there were holes in the floorboard big enough to throw a cat through.The driver handed him what was left of the exhaust that had fallen off somewhere in Nevada.I handed him a box of Kleenex.
As it turned out, the seller refunded a portion of his money (lucky in that respect).
Lesson learned.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

I would also like to add to this for people contemplating buying a car sight unseen. I have done it twice and got burned both times. The first time was the 34 in my avatar. I saw some good photos of it but photos don't show how thin metal is if its rusting from the inside out. I have had to replace virtually every panel except the roof and top of the cowl on this turd. My bad. Second time I bought from a dealer who assured me the car was a rust free Texas car. Beautiful pictures but I learned to not buy a car painted white, it hides too much.The gas tank fell out getting it off of the transport because the fiberglassed trunk was so rusty it wouldn't hold up any longer.
Dealer or not, do not buy a car you can't physically molest with your hands.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

Not always having someone come to look at the car your buying or selling works out. Once I had a Corvette for sale on Vette Finder.com and someone living far away sent a fellow that knew Corvettes to inspect the car before he came to buy it. The fellow said that this is exactly what his friend was looking for and felt the car was definitely worth it. He called his friend and the fellow rented a trailer and drove 400 miles with cash in hand. When he got to my house he had a different opinion. His standard was much higher and he was disappointed in the car. The point being you need to come yourself and don't rely on someone else to make that call.
The next person that looked at the car bought it and was very happy with what he was getting.....a happy ending after all.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

ALWAYS go look at a car yourself before buying. If it's too far to drive, fly in and check it out personally. Looking at a brazilen pictures, asking a friend to go look at it, or hiring someone to go and inspect it will never be as good as going there yourself and making the final decision.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

I agree totally on flying to or doing whatever to see car first hand. I bought a 36 Ford based on nice photos and a great conversation with the owner in Washington state. When the truck arrived in Illinois, almost didn't start on the truck, battery cables so loose. All "original" car had a lot of chrome stuff on the engine, wrong distributor and intake manifold. Long story short, a lot of work replacing parts and overdue maintenance but luckily the car turned out nice.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

Maybe I am old fashioned, but I would never purchase a vintage car that I had not personally examined. That's me. I'm crazy like that.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

JM I'd trust you to look for me.There a difference in all opinions but not 6500.00 plus difference. Point being better someone then no one.At least he can give a ballpark.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

I too, think that this path should be pursued. I would also not be bored if you want to post what the problems you had were; it might help someone else in the future. Luckily, I already have too may cars.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

Most car dealers are just salesmen and know very little about old cars. Just read some of the ads on e-Bay from dealers selling a classic car. The descriptions are sometimes laughable. Always go inspect the car yourself. A few bucks for gas or an airplane ride can save you thousands. I bought two cars from photos. The first one turned out better than described by the owner and was actually a Rouge car. I called him and thanked him immensely when it arrived at my house. The second one was a disaster and I fixed all the offending problems and sold it. Took a loss and never regretted it. Also learned to always inspect a car myself.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

Yep.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

I have been very lucky. The last 5 cars I purchased were cars that I did not personally inspect. I spoke with the owners of the cars and then checked with people who knew them. Two of the cars were purchased from a man I bought cars from years ago and I trust him implicitly. All of the cars are high quality cars and worth every cent. If I had waited even another hour they would have been sold. That being said I will not tempt fate and buy any more cars. I have been fortunate and by working hard and researching, I have been able to locate all of the cars I wanted.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

Sorry for the problems you are having. Fortunately this does not happen in the vast majority of vehicles purchased. As a veteran of lots of classic/antique/hot rods transported (numbering in the thousands) most of the time the buyers do not see the vehicle in person or have it inspected & are overall happy with their purchase. Of course there have been a few that had obviously been taken advantage of. You will have this in all parts of life. In my 30 years though, I have never not been able to load the car from the seller & was never given a bogus address

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

I bought a 28 roadster pickup sight unseen. It worked out OK I suppose. The buyer didn't disclose that there was a crack in the driver's door that needed fixing and way later I discovered the passenger side door was rusted out on the bottom. It had the wrong starter installed. By wrong I mean it wasn't functional. An early 28 Model A takes a special starter with a 1/2 inch shaft. This one had one installed with a 5/8 inch shaft that would not disengage after it stuck to the flywheel it wasn't designed for. Oh well, it was roadworthy after locating the correct starter. In this case the guy that owned it inherited it from his uncle who restored it and didn't know a thing about it. I asked if it had the early 28 transmission and was told it had a Model A transmission. Turned out it had the early multi-disc transmission which was OK and had a lot of very hard to find early parts.

I was advised a long time ago by my older and more car buying experienced brother to buy an antique car from the guy who restored it. He should be able to answer detailed questions as to what work was done and you should be able to tell whether he is truthful or not. I add this bit of good advise to "don't buy sight unseen."

I'll also though in have someone who knows about that particular vehicle inspect it. After 5 cars purchased I'm a little better at inspection but my enthusiasm and the excitement of the chase seems to cloud my better judgement.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

I have purchased a couple of cars "sight unseen" and have found them less than expected. Never again!

Having said that, I came across a Model A roadster that looked fabulous. Unfortunately, I had just undergone bone surgery on my leg and was in no condition to go see the car (about 200 miles away in another state). Not to be deterred, I called the owner with a list of questions and requested specific pictures. He obliged. Finally, to avoid a repeat of my past omissions I decided to get the car inspected. I called a local Model A car club close by the car's location and and asked the club's contact person if he knew someone who would look the car over for me. He said he would post a notice on the club's web site with my phone number. I received a call from a guy that said he lived close by and would look it over and get back with me. I said I would gladly pay for his time and trouble. I also told him it was listed on eBay and time was important.

I waited patiently but no response, the auction was ending, I placed calls to the "inspector" and nothing was returned. Suddenly, the auction ended "As no longer available." I waited a day or two and called the owner to see if the car was truly "no longer available". He told me a guy came to look at it (who incidentally had the same first name as my "inspector"). He liked what he saw and bought it! I called the so-called "inspector" for an explanation and (surprise), never received a return call after several attempts.

Finally. Remember, buying a car "sight unseen" can be a lot like "on-line dating." What shows up at the door is not exactly what the pictures and description portrayed!

Tom

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

Whew ! Some horror stories for sure. I bought a 34 five window sight unseen except for photos at Hershey. I had chased the owner trying to catch up with him and finally gave up. Came home and started reading ads in Hemmings when these cars were more plentiful and saw one I liked, called the owner and it turned out to be the Hershey car I had tried to find. Anyway, bought it sight unseen and when it came late in the day/early evening my heart sank badly. Needless to say I did not sleep well that night. I might add you can repair most anything if you cover it in enough dollar bills which I did and it turned out pretty well. It is running strong in the town where I live and the owner is pleased. The other car I have now was also purchased sight unseen from California and was as represented with some small issues which I have taken care of. The owner was a police officer and I asked him to send me a photo copy of his license to start with. I figured it would help to track him down if things went "south". Guess I have been a fortunate buyer compared to others on here. I feel bad for folks getting stiffed in any way on a deal.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

You can look @ all the photos & have a zillion people inspect the car you wish to purchase BUT if the seller wants to deceive you he will succeed.
How many of you would drain the transmission oil or tear an engine down? I doubt
that anyone would.
I found this(pic) in the transmission oil after I got ownership of the roadster & was replacing all the fluids. I had no idea what it was but you guys ID it as an acorn. The wheels only had one or two nuts holding them on & the pic of the wheel had the center cut out. All four wheels had the hubcaps on so were not pulled for inspection. Brake linings were worn out also as was a brake rod almost cut in half. This car was advertised as just needing wiring & paint & the chassis being restored. I couldn't make it but had two people inspect it for me. When one fellow went to look at the car it was in pieces,all the fenders were off as was the hood, it looked no where near what the pictures I had received of the car when advertised . I am not totally disappointed in the car but not so much in the fellow that was selling it.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

Are "used" car dealers held to a different standard than the average Joe?

What I mean is if I sell a used vehicle to you, once money has changed hands, the deal is done...you might get home with it and find out it has no floor boards, etc, take me to court (at least here in Ca.) and the Judge would send you away for not having it inspected, etc.

Do classic cars fall under "used" car sales?
I could call my Uncle, he sold used cars for 50 plus years, but he's not in good health, and hate to bother him.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

Mike
My son sold used cars for a couple of years. He had a state license. High end imports, then C---Ys. At least some accountability implied.
Bruce

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

I have bought a couple of cars sight unseen, including two from a frequent Ford Barn advertiser. I have been extremely satisfied with my purchases.
However, there are a few things that should be considered when buying a car sight unseen.
-You should have a lot of communication with the seller. You should feel "right" about the person when you talk with them on the phone. If you do not feel comfortable or your questions are not being answered, or the answers are vague and skirt the questions, or there are a lot of "I don't knows" or "its in great condition for the age" that is a red flag.
-You should ask for a lot of GOOD photos. Not just ten photos of the car parked in the owner's garage, but A LOT of photos. The one person I mentioned above sent about 70 clear, outside photos of each car. Top, bottom, inside, outside, different angles, each body panel, each trim part, etc etc etc.
-While dealers get a lot of bad flack, remember that good dealers are in business because they provide good products and a good transaction. There is more accountability from a dealer than an infrequent or one time private seller that doesn't care if negative publicity are spread about them because they won't be selling a car again or at least for awhile. Dealers need to sell cars to make a living, private sellers do not. Dealers are often able to assist with things like storing the car until you can receive it, taking payments, trade-ins, etc whereas private sellers usually do not.
-When possible, it is always good to go and see the car yourself. When in doubt, go see the car yourself or at least send a trusted inspector.
-Before sending payment in full, request a copy of the title. Some dealers request a deposit before sending a copy of the title, that is understandable since they may not know you. Things should jive up meaning that the VIN number should be appropriate to the particular vehicle, owner's name/address, etc. There is a lot to be said about searching someone's name on the internet to make sure they live where they say they live, etc.
-If a car or a seller does not feel right, don't do the deal and wait until another opportunity arises. While buying a car can certainly be an emotional experience, always use your logic before proceeding.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

I have bought a few cars sight unseen and have done fine. I think a lot of it depends on your expectations.

I have bought off of the HAMB site, and E-bay. I look at pictures, talk to the owner or representative on the phone, not e-mails. I listen to the seller and decide if they are full of BS or not. I don't build up my expectations that the car will be something that it isn't. I figure the amount of money that I save by not traveling to look at it I can use to fix the little things. So far it has worked out well. From what Bill's Auto Works said, I am not alone.

Neal

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

Howdy Fellows, Caveat Emptor in all transactions, My 1939 truck is a great start to a restoration, but that rear axil ring & pinion was a magnetic fir ball long before Me.
We climbed in and under for two days before the auction up here in Maine, but there
was no way of knowing without a full road test. I should have jacked it up to roll test.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

Maybe that is the point for me. I can go and look at the car and still get screwed. I would rather roll the dice and save the trip. On a private sale, I value the integrity of the seller.

Neal

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

The inspectors you send to evaluate the car are usually a big waste of time for an antique car. Their inspection will be superficial, like how much oil is in the car!
Even if you are a mechanic, you will not be able to dismantle the car to see everything.
It is an old car! Going into it..yOU SHOW BE PREPARED TO spend money to fix whatever is broken. If you buy from an expensive antique house they could have had stupid mechanics restoring the car....You may find it will need to be done right when you get it.
Solution...Buy cheap...expect to pay more to fix it right...
and above all... enjoy working on it. it is old and enjoy being part of the history...
Once it is all fixed... you will be bored... there is only so much wax you can put on the car.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

But is it enforced?...just asking...i f he was to sell a "frame off resto"...and the buyer received a painted over car...as a used car dealer, is he okay, or would a buyer have recourse on him?

Again, just asking, curious, etc...

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

Mike
I would quess you would have recourse with the dealer for whom he worked.
Almost thirty years ago. Maybe a fine or suspension. Don't know anything about today. Probably a bonus.
Bruce

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

I recently bought a car off Craigslist's the fellow selling was honest and upfront he even went as far as to record a video and send to me so I could examine it. We exchanged multiple emails and I talked to him on the phone after all that I still drove 650 miles to personally look @ the car upon seeing the car and meeting the man I immediately bought the car and btw he was just as honest in person.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

A couple of words that keep coming up in this thread that catches my attention:
1. Reputable
2. Expectations
I question just how "Reputable" the dealer was, and also feel the buyer's "expectations" may have been a bit high.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

Use common "god given" "Common sense" and you will be in the game with no losses. Gambling is meant more to " destroy a man/ than it is to make him rich. bob s

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

Just as risky as buying a car sight unseen is selling a car that you didn't advertise to a stranger. I sold a Lincoln 7 years ago to a person on the West coast that I didn't know. I Googled his name and his name was a person of good reputation. The arrangements for pickup by the shipper went too well and his check arrived only a day before the truck. I had my bank verify the check (same bank) and the deal was completed. I held my breath the entire time hoping that this deal that was too good to be true was real. Even though I did my due diligence, there are some slick people out there who will cover the bases with phony paper and you don't know you were had until it's too late.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

empty lot?? Google Earth the address. Use Google White phone pages to connect names with addresses. Be a detective. I bought my coupe on Ebay site unseen. Turns out seller used another persons good reputation on Ebay as his own. The car arrived at my house with no brakes and mufflers that looked like they were shot at with a shot gun. the seller and I had a phone conversation that got me a sizable refund. All of this from a dealer in O.K. city and me in Delaware. I was really disappointed at first but I had fun making the car right and driveable. So go see it in person or cross your fingers.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

Here in the UK we have very strict legislation relating to THE SALE OF GOODS ACT and this in particular applies to traders and shop keepers, whether selling used motor-cars or fish-n-chips! So; if someone advertises their fish-n-chips as "best in town"...they have to be and tough luck if they're are proven otherwise.

Used car dealers are really in for a tough time. Unlike the USA we cannot sell a car with NO WARRANTY ! A car has to be of merchantable quality and fit for purpose regardless of how much the car is sold for. So.....if you advertise a car for £5000 and the purchaser nails you to the desk and you are stupid enough to accept £4000 and then the car goes wrong.....you're either in for a big bill or a court case. And...almost without except, the customer comes out winning !

There are however exceptions. An accident damaged car that has been deemed as beyond economical repair can be sold as "salvage" or an old jalopy can be sold as parts or for restoration.

However, it's all in the description......advertise a car as "perfect" or "like new" and it has to be.

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

THAT is low. What a slime ball to do that to you. As they say, sadly, trust no one:mad:

Re: Buying a car site unseen.
 

Another story. Maybe two, if you all can stand it...
I'm a 34-nut, and recently heard of a 34 for sale, less than 100 miles from home. Two personal friends looked at it, and gave it a thumbs up. An 'original' 54K car, supposedly running. The point of this story is you have to look for yourself. I was severely disappointed, and did not buy it. I had the cash in my pocket. And, the guy was very plesant on the phone, didn't deceive me, etc, etc. And, me, my two friends, and the seller are all over-75 seniors, so we should have been on the same page on that count. I have to look for myself.
Second story, and this has to do with trailer queens. There is someone here on the board that I always think of when this story comes to mind. About 14 years ago I bought a 47. It was/is amateur-'restored'. It's been in the V8Times, and it has been EFV8 Club judged (first, in the 90's). I had seen the car a few times, first time about 4 years prior. I thought I'd looked it over pretty well. And, cosmetically, the car is pretty good - it has lived up to my expectations. Here's my point... To be point judged, and to look good, it can be a dog mechanically. And it can go on and off the trailer with no problems. I have had to rebuild virtually every mechanical aspect of this car. The engine had almost .020 wear, brakes had wrong parts and barely worked, needed steering and suspension parts, needed clutch and transmission work to even drive it. But, it went on-n-off the trailer perfectly. In my opinion, you need to do your own evaluation, and even then, expect surprises.