Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

Hi Guys,

Took my new 30 DLX Coupe out for a spin on Saturday, about 20 miles, she ran like a champ. Did the same on Sunday, maybe a little further, on the way home, maybe 5 miles away she started running really rough, no power, bad backfires, etc.

Pulled over a saw that there was a fuel leak coming from the top of the brass shut off valve (where the knob screws in, see picture) my father-in-law had added by the carburetor.

Ended up coming home on a flatbed, I think I could have fixed it on the side of the road but my wife did not have the same faith in my mechanical abilities as I had and she was afraid that the fuel that leaked out could catch on fire even if I could get her running.

Question....is that shut off even necessary, can I just reconnect the fuel line directly to the carburetor and leave that off completely....that would have been my plan on the side of the road.

Also, it appears the air filter caught a lot of the fuel that leaked out, should I replace that or is it it OK.

Unfortunately I have not been able to do anything with it since Sunday, Monday morning I found out I had a detached retina and had to have emergency surgery so I'm benched for a few weeks while I recover.

Thanks for the help in advance.

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

Take that thing off!

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

If it was mine I would do away with the shut off and the air cleaner. but check to make sure your inside shut off is working ok if not replace it and add one of the upright filters in the shut off valve. Would also go a complete new fuel line less fittings less chance for a leek.

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

While we're in the mood to "that that thing off", ...I would also strongly suggest you consider replacing that fan with a 2-blade fan from Snyders. If you choose not to take it off, very likely it will take itself off for you. :o


BTW, I can empathize with you regarding the detached retina. I had that happen to my right eye several years ago while attending Hershey, and I did not lay face-down like they told me to do and I only have about 90% peripheral vision in that eye as a result. My suggestion is to do EXACTLY as they tell you.

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

Thanks guys...

Will definetly take it off....inside fuel shutoff working great and understand on less fittings on the fuel line.

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

Thanks Brent, it is already a two blade fan, is there a different one I should have on it.

And thanks on the eye thing, this is my second detached retina in 6 years, right eye about 6 years ago, left eye this time and you are exactly right on the face down thing for two weeks....way harder than the actual surgery.

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

Question, so I should take off the air filter too?

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

Looks like rust in the glass bowl, probably should be cleaned and you may also have rust in the carb ??

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

you might find after removing the shutoff at the carb that the inside one does not shut off completely. i would buy a new inside valve and the little standup filter that goes on it. also a new line from the firewall to carb...
i wouild can the air filter also but if you must run one get the metal screen type.

maybe that was not the reason it broke down depending on the severity of the fuel leak.
could be coincidental

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

Thanks Mitch, it was definetly the cause of the breakdown, the fuel was pouring out of there, the only way I could get it to stop was to shut off the valve under the dash and that would stop the leak...so pretty sure that valve is fine.

This may be a dumb question, but if I take off the air filter what goes in it's place.

And it makes perfect sense to replace the fuel line, way too many connections in it.

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

I don't use an air filter on all three of my A's. The way I see it if Mr.Ford didn't put it on there then you don't need it. Keep in mind that I don't drive on unpaved roads either.

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

nothing goes in its place, remove the whole snorkel off the carb held on with a single set screw.

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

If you are going to run an air filter get the Hiboy filter that will sit above the carb making it impossible for fuel to saturate the filter in case of a carb leak. Throw the old filter out as it's laden with fuel and can catch fire if you get a carb backfire. Running any filter below the carb on a model A downdraft or any downdraft for that matter is just dangerous in my opinion. Otherwise run the airmaze. The air maze will not hold the fuel but will also not filter the air.

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

Brent was referring to your original two blade fan which will probably
look like the one in the picture someday if you don't replace it.

Bob

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

I would also recommend removing the air filter. The air filter will cause more problems than it will ever solve by causing rich opperation diluted crankcase oil and loss of power from restricted air flow . Ford didn't think that a filter was needed and didn't install one on ether the model T or A

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

It might be a two bladed fan but something about it doesn't look right:confused:

Sewall Tyler

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

I agree the fan doesn't look right. Just about any of the old repro fans can be dangerous ! A person really can't go wrong with a new Snyders balanced aluminum two blade fan .

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

this and also remember most the the roads back then were unimproved so mostly packed dirt or gravel which = way dustier than most can imagine. That is unless you live in the boonies and still have gravel roads - then you know that dust gets everywhere:p

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

I also thought the fan didn't look right, but would like to see a closer picture of the hub.
Has the fan been shortened?

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

Engine pans did a pretty good job in keeping dust out of the engine compartment. Probably far,far more model A's have survived than any other old car. This in its self says a lot. Of course if running a filter makes a person feel better they should just go ahead and do it. Because of age impractacality and insurance restrictions, most won't get driven all that many miles anyway. Its mostly about thje fun of owning a model A any way and not about a car that is expected to be used for primary transportation. They really do run better not being choked down with any type air filter . I've run them since 1960 without a filter with no bad results.

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

That fan looks as if the blades have been twisted to give them a little more pitch. A little scary
.

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

Thanks Tom, as soon as I can get out in the garage I was planning on taking a better picture and posting it....want to make sure what I have on the car is correct.

Nick

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

Ok guys, asked my wife to go take some pics of the fan, you all have me worried now, but I'm thankful for pointing these things out.

Here you go...

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps44e49b34.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps6aba18f0.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps42507379.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps935e3efa.jpg

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

Is that a big crack I see where the blade turns into the hub?

Just outside the nut area in the curve is where they like to crack and send the blade through the hood or radiator. I'm one of the few that still runs an original fan. but I check it often and may even switch to the aluminum fan.

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

As long as the filter is of proper size to flow the CFM of the engine there will be no performance reduction. It is simple mathematics. A = (C.I.D. x RPM) / 25,500. You can go a step further and be sure of no restriction by using a Hiboy that has the K&N.

Just because Henry didn't think it needed a filter doesn't mean it shouldn't have one.

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

Its an original Fan. I use to run one on our coupe, I loved it because it was such a purty !!!. One day without warning one of the blades broke off and flew over the top of the car. Luckly I was running with the hood off because I was still working on the car while driving on the back roads. The car shook so badly, at first I didn't know what had happened. I pulled over and removed the fan belt. I wasn't far from home and made it in on thermo syphon for cooling. Ive had three old fans fail. Two four blade fans and one original two blade. One of the four blade fans that slung a blade got the hood and radiator on my uncle Albert AA truck. I had just recently installed a new Rootleib hood before it happened.

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

Yep you can use a high boy filter but it sure ain't purty . I know I don't need any of them.

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

Purdy, you're right they ain't purty. You're also right you don't need one. I need one because of my back round with engines in general. We've run engines without filters because of unforeseen circumstances and boy does it wreak havoc. Not A engines and for the most part people don't run their A's that many miles but if I were taking a long drive I would most certainly want one on my car.

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

That being the case, I suppose that if I was you I would use one. Smiley face

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

Hey guys, got the all clear from the doctor today that I can resume normlactivities, eye recovery was 3 or 4 days ahead of schedule...said I did a good job keeping my head down.

That said I'm going to drive up to Snyder's tomorrow morning to pick up some parts to start the adventure of fixing the fuel leak by taking off the shutoff valve and replacing it with a new fuel line, take off the air cleaner (still on the fence if I'm going to replace it and possibly replace the fan.

After posting the pics of the fan earlier in this thread are their any additional comments as to the installed fan being original or not....I'm calling my FIL tonight to see if he remembers what is on it...

Also, when I replace the fuel line do I need to add Teflon tape in the connections, looks like there may be tape on the connections now but want to confirm if I need it or not.

There is a small car show in my neighborhood Sunday so I want to try to get it running on Saturday to take her to the show.

As always, thanks for the help.

Nick

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

Along with everyone else, personally I would buy a new aluminum fan (cheaper now than the future cost of hood and radiator repair, not to say it won't let loose when you're standing next to it!), a new fuel line, a new fuel shut-off valve (inside, under the tank), and filter that installs in that valve. Likely, the reason for the added fuel valve at the carburetor was that the stock valve would not completely shut off. The current repro under tank valves are good. Teflon tape doesn't do much good on compression fittings. I agree with the majority on not needing an air filter unless you drive a lot of miles on dusty roads and then the carb should be balanced.

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

Thanks Roger, just spoke to my father-in-law, he said the two blade fan on the car today was put on the car about 15 years ago, definetly going to buy the aluminum fan and replace it.

I'm confident that the shut off inside the car is good, the only way I could get the leak to stop was to turn that off, with that valve off there was no fuel leak. My FIL felt if one shutoff valve was good, two had to be better not taking into account it also added two other places where fuel can leak out of. Probably going to buy a new valve anyway just to have it in case I need it.

I'm going to take the air filter that is on the car off and run it that way for awhile, going to buy another air filter (probably the K&N that flips under the carburetor) just to have it if I want to add it back on later.

Thanks on the Teflon tape, kind of thought that but it looked like it currently had tape on it.

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

I just noticed something - why is the vacuum line larger thickness then the fuel line? - I thought it was the other way around

You may want to get that correct

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

NABCO, If you decide to use teflon tape use the YELLOW type it's GAS RESISTANCE, you can find it in the plumbing dept at hardware, lowes etc. I NEVER FIND IT AT AUTO parts house. have fun modelAtony tony white Lafayette, LA

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

Thanks Tony...

So what are the thoughts on the vacuum line that Jim pointed out?

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

Someone posted on here that Yellow tape is gas resistant and Orange tape is gasoline resistant.

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

Teflon tape will cause more problems than it will ever solve. If you put a klittle too much, you can crack fittings or what they screw into. When you remove the fitting particals of the tape will enter the carburetor and cause problems. I don't even like teflon tape for plumbing use. If I used any type of sealer it would be something like Permatex high tack. Brattons lists this product on page 37 part number 7840. This sealer is usually available at any parts store that sells Permatex products .The gas line fittings on the carb and sediment bowl use ferules and really should need no sealer . The cut off valve and fittings under the tank may benefit from the use of this type sealer, especially the cut off valve . Be sure to use the stand up filter that fits in the cut off valve and stands up in the bottom of the tank .

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

Thanks Purdy, the stand up filter is the one I have on my list for when I go to Snyder's tomorrow. Not planning on replacing that cutoff valve right away,like I said I'm pretty sure the one on the car is good, buying a new one for back-up.

What are your thoughts on the vacuum line, from the pic in my original post does it look like the wrong one, a new one is only 5 bucks.

Nick

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

The vacuum line is definitely not the correct one. Two questions: Is it leaking? Are you going to enter the car in fine point judging? If the answer to both of the questions is no, I would probably just leave the line on the car and not worry about it.

Re: Breakdown Sunday and Looking for Advice
 

I don't think it's leaking, the reason I ask is it was brought up by someone else a few posts back.

If it won't hurt replacing it I'll probably grab one tomorrow and put it on.

Thanks