MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

Has anyone noticed in the last couple of issues of the "Model A News" (particularly in the Board Meeting minutes in the latest issue), that MARC will begin enforcing their requirement that every member of a local MARC Regional Club also be a member of the National Club. The minutes state that on the Region renewal form, an club officer will have to sign the application attesting that all the local club's members are also MARC members. Also, on requests for Certificates of Liability Insurance, there will be a similar attestation required.

This rule has been in the MARC bylaws for years, but only now, with the heightened liability insurance awarness these days, is MARC beginning to crack down and enforce the requirement.

I can tell you for our own local club, that requiring all of our members to pay the $38 annual MARC membership dues in addition to our own club's dues would decimate our membership.

Have any of you guys who are leaders among your local clubs that are also Regions of MARC discussed this issue? What are your feelings, and how do you plan to deal with this?

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

Other national clubs have/had the same rule, tough rule to enforce. Bob

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

It's for liability insurance (they are looking at new insurance companies). If you are not a national member you are not covered by national liability insurance.

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

A $38.00 yearly membership fee is a small price as organizations such as MARC and MAFCA to name a few are in large part responsible for we as owners of antique cars to have the privilege to operate them on the public roads and highways.

Chet

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

We are working on a hold harmless document to keep on file for those that opt out of national membership.

It will state that they are aware of the purpose of a region, the fact that the national club has liability insurance for approved region club activities and by opting out they agree to to hold harmless the national club, local region, it's members and officers from suits arriving from those club activities.

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

I believe that's not entirely correct. When MARC (or any national org) has their underwriter issue a certificate of liablity insurance, the entity that the insurance is covering is the local club and usually a second named certificateholder, usually the site where the event is being held. If anyone were to sue the local club, the liability insurance would cover that local club. The person bringing the suit does not have to be a MARC member for the liability insurance to kick in. For example, you're having a car show, and someone off the street comes to view the cars and trips and falls on the show field. The local club is covered for the liablity if that spectator sues the club. The liability insurance is not covering each individual club member for their own person liability. That is what your own auto insurance policy is for.

MARC wants to enforce the rule that all Regional members be MARC members to bring in more dues money to the National club in order to offset the rising cost of the liability insurance.

I could foresee that if we were to require our members to be MARC members, we'd loose about 70% of our local membership. That translates to over $4,000 in annual dues for our club. For far less than that, our club could purchase its own umbrella liability policy and not rely on MARC to provide the insurance.

Other than the liability insurance, and the ability to post ads in the "Model A News" what other real benefits are there to being a Region of MARC?

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

The magazine alone is easily worth the price of the MARC membership. Other benefits include being able to attend National Meets and tours. The 38.00 membership fee is less than the cost of a tank of gas-a certainly reasonable amount to pay. I feel the same way about MAFCA, MTFCA, AACA, etc. These clubs are the backbone of the hobby.

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

Those are all individual member benefits. And I'm not disputing that it's worthwhile being an individual member of MARC. But what are the benefits (other than the liability insurance) to the local regional club being affiliated with the national organization?

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

That's an interesting approach, but what does your president intend to do when he has to sign the attestation that all members of your region are MARC members? He won't be able to truthully sign that document, regardless of the hold harmless letters you've collected from the non-MARC members. I wonder what MARC intends to do if a Region submits a renewal, and the local president does not sign the attestation? Will they refuse to accept the region's renewal? Will they accept the renewal, but refuse to issue Certificates of Liability coverage to the region? This will be an interesting thing to see play out.

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

Just saying.
This came from MARC;

Please understand that many people think they have some sort of insurance "coverage" from MARC, and some assume that it is a lot more than it really is. MARC holds a General Liability Insurance to defend MARC against any suit seeking damages to which this insurance applies. Additionally, the insurance has no duty to defend against any suit that the insurance does not apply. There is an Endorsement to the policy adding "Additional Insured" that I've spelled out below. Basically what this all means is that if you and your members, who are MARC members, are involved in activities that are in the best interest of MARC, and happen to be involved in an incident where someone is injured, or property damaged, and you or your members are sued, MARC's Insurance Company will defend you against the claim of liability, and by extension, if necessary,pay the claim.

In this economic time, where anyone can and is sued from spilling coffee to a kid at a car show opening your door and slamming it closed with his fingers in the door, we are all at greater risk. That is the whole reason for MARC extending liability coverage to their members.

MARC's liability policy does not come into play for any moving incident, that's your own automobile insurance.

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

Right, this backs up what I explained in my post. The insurance protects the club and by extension it's members from being sued for damages by anyone.

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

So we both said the same thing. Member of national, protected, not member, not protected.

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

Cheaper than Costco or Sam's club membership!

I am a card carrying paying member of all of the ones listed below. I like the mags as much as anything else.

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

I think this needs to be presented in a different perspective.

In order to keep the dues down for those who do pay it is in your interest to have more people in the national club. I believe the cost for the insurance is the same if we have 100,000 members or 200,000 members. So you have to spread that cost over the total membership.

So if you allow none members to exist in your local club then you are basically paying for them too, but in reality you are affecting everyone as all members are subsidizing the none payers in your club.

Is that fair to everyone?

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

The San Diego Model A Club requires membership in at least one of the National clubs, MARC or MAFCA.

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

I'm guessing that what the root issue is is that for the most, the people who are doing most of the suing are members of the local clubs and not members of MARC. They attend a club sponsored event, get hurt, sue their club, sue MARC too because their club is a region of MARC, and collect a payment. They benefited from the insurance without having to pay anything toward the cost of it. MARC is (perhaps reasonably) stating that if you want to benefit from this insurance you should help offset the cost of it.

I'm trying to understand the distiction you are drawing about who is protected. Let's say someone off the street, neither a local club member or MARC member, hurts themselves on a car at a show that is owned by a member of the local club who but is not a member of MARC. This spectator sues the car owner, sues the local club, and sues MARC. Are you interpreting what MARC wrote to mean that because the car owner is not a member of MARC that this insurance does not cover the car owner, and because of that, the local club is also not covered? Or is it that the car owner is not covered, but the local club still is covered? I don't believe that the MARC liability insurance ever covers the car owner for the car owner's liability. That would be covered by the car owners own auto insurance. The MARC liability insurance covers the local club and of course MARC. (As an aside, every local club should incorporate in order to shield it's members and particularly its leaders from liability. This way, only the assets of the incorporated club are at risk, and not the personal assets of its members)

Notice how in MARC's explanation you posted, it is in bold underlined text "we will defend you". I'm reading this to mean that the "you" means the local club only because earlier in the paragraph, they draw a distiction between "you and your members".

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

What you are going to see also is that clubs will also be required to carry their own liability coverage for those that REFUSE to join a national. There will be 2 separate groups that are covered within the same club by 2 separate polices... For me the dues should be raised to 45.00 to help defer the costs. Do you realize what you get with this organization!!

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

No, you are not covered personally. Your local club is covered from any actions that you take that may lead to damages.

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

Call MARC as I don't know how to make it any easier. Member of national marc covered, Not a member of national marc not covered. That simple!!!!!

I've looked it on the web site, I emailed them, I've called them, I've done it, you think I'm wrong you do it.

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

There are many cases where waivers of Hold Harmless are not worth the paper upon which they are printed.

Chet

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

I have seen this same fear in two other "older" organizations that I belong to.
In one of them, barbershopping, which consists of a group of guys with an AVERAGE age of 72.5, dues were $108 with 50% discount for those over 65. We decided to raise the dues to $180, remove the discount and levy an additional $150 for local dues and guess what? We did not lose a single member.

The $38 is less than I pay for some magazine subscription full of fluff that have articles written for mouth breathers and knuckle walkers . For $38 we are getting a great magazine, with articles of interest as well as access to technical resources. I think it's a bargain.

Unfortunately, I have seen how the value of a hold harmless agreement is less than the paper it is printed on. (sure, you signed it...but the lawyer is representing your wife/family/estate/etc....and they did not sign it.

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

A person or club can have all the insurance in the world and if you/the club are sued and regardless who wins in court, everybody loses.

Chet

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

You are right on. If it was not for them, we might not be driving are cars on the roads. A lot of drivers would like to see the old slow cars that do not go 20 miles per hour over the speed limit off the roads.

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

What George Miller says. No truer words were ever spoken. There is power in numbers and these large numbers keep the wolves at bay. Thanks, George.

Chet

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

Good discussion. As you may be aware, there are significant changes coming within MARC regarding liability insurance. A good part of the Board of Directors meeting in St. Louis was spent on insurance issues and there have been several meetings since focused on getting the right insurance for MARC members and at a reasonable cost. This will likely be discussed at French Lick later this month with announcements planned in the Model A News as well. MARC membership is crucial to making the system work at its best efficiency. Stay tuned.

Joe Valentine
Secretary, MARC

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

Our region has for many years required all our members to be national members. We collect our regional dues and national dues all at one time, and our treasurer forwards our national dues to MARC. That way we are sure we comply with MARC's requirements every year. Don't play games. If you are a MARC region, comply with MARC's requirements.

W. Michael
MARC member since 1968

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

So if your local club is member of both MAFCA and MARC that would mean bottom line you would need to pay your clubs dues and both of the national clubs dues or pick one or the other national clubs to be affiliated with.
Our Model T club went on our own, dropping memberships in ether of the national clubs. We formed a LLC and the club carries insurance to cover "the club", members are still required to carry insurance on their own cars to cover their car.

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

I believe $38 is very reasonable to join MARC.

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

Joe, As you are the MARC Secretary, perhaps you might be able to answer me this: what if our region wants to continue our affiliation with MARC, but will not risk loosing 70% of our membership to enforce MARC's requirment that all our local members be MARC members too? If we submit our region's renewal form, and do not sign the statement that affirms that all our local members are MARC members, will MARC accept our region's renewal? If MARC accepts our renewal, will MARC ever give us a Certificate of Liability Insurance for any event our club holds?

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

Exchange from last month,

OK,

Just heard a rumor that MARC will be eliminating regions with small national memberships. Is the request for a number of National members in our club for purposes of deciding to remove the club from the rolls? Is this connected to the search for a new insurance company?
Is it just small national memberships or the ratio of National to casual members that will lead to the removal?
I have heard this from other clubs in Florida.
Mike Vitetta

message dated 5/20/2014 2:19:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:
Dear Mike.
Amazing how rumors start. I will try and keep it simple. The request is made by our new Insurance Company. They are trying to find out how many region members are members of MARC. The intent is to NOT eliminate or diminish the role or the size of a Region.
Our Constitution states the following for Regions and their membership:
"A minimum of five (5) members in good standing may petition to form a New Region in MARC upon completion of an application and payment of an application fee as determined by the Board. The application shall be reviewed for completion and verified to assure each member is in good standing. A prerequisite for all Region Members shall be MARC membership. All MARC members shall be eligible for Region Membership."
The sticking point is the guideline requiring MARC Membership. Some Regions have members that are not MARC Members. Our Insurance policy essentially covers MARC Members. Those that are not put the region members and MARC in jeopardy. MARC membership supports the cost of maintaining our National Club which includes insurance, standing committees, employees, publications, office building and maintenance thereof.
Sincerely,
Gary Johnson
MARC Vice President.
From: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 14:45:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Email from the Website
To: [email protected]
CC: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]


I always want to go back to the source when it comes to rumors. It is easier to squash them that way.

Mike
Hi Mike,
I agree it is best to squash these rumors before they have a chance to START but when already being spread we need to make sure all members get the real story and not innuendo or rumor.
It is part of my job as Director of Membership and Public Relations to make sure MARC grows and remains at healthy membership numbers.
It will never be the intent of this club to reduce our membership by even one person and certainly not any regions.
Quite the contrary, we are doing all we can to increase the membership in MARC and need the help of all the regions to do so.
We will be adding on Regions as they are formed by groups around the country and even the world.
We have active Regions in many countries around the world and communicate with them frequently.
It is as Gary has indicated very important that all members be members of the National MARC to support our efforts to cover all of the members and regions with a significant insurance policy so if a catastrophic event occurs they can be protected by our policy.
The National Board of Directors has made decisions to make sure this is all possible to protect those members and regions that we are talking about. Please remember all Board of Directors come from a Region.
I want to thank you for bringing this rumor to our attention so we can squelch it as soon as possible.
Thanks for being a dedicated member of the Model A Restorers Club,
Ken
MARC Director of Membership and Public Relations


Ken Ehrenhofer
[email protected]
Home 815 -337-4656
Mobile 630-697-3906

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

Will, the MARC Constitution requries all Region members to be MARC national members. Our Region (Hudson Valley) has always required MARC membership in its Bylaws so that all new members came in knowing they must join MARC as a requisite to joining the Region. As others do, our treasurer collects dues for our Region and for MARC and sends a check to the national office. Regarding partial MARC membership within a Region, you bring up a very interesting point and I'm sure our insurance exec will address it. As Gary and Ken stated, it's the intent of MARC to not only keep the membership it has, but to expand its memberhsip by offering excellent liability insurance for MARC-related events, including an umbrella policy over and above the basic coverage. We feel that although some folks may opt out of MARC, most will recognize the benefits it offers and will stay. Obviously, the Board hopes others will join in as well. We know that clubs are not for everyone, but as most of us feel about Ford Barn, we believe MARC brings a lot to the table regarding education through its publications, fine point and touring class judging standards, fashion judging standards, youth programs, and annual meets for the exchange of ideas and to better the hobby. For less than a tank of gas, an individual can avail himself of these benefits for a year. The reality of the world we live in is that lawsuits happen (see thread re: MAFCA Lawsuit) and that MARC wishes to mitigate to the best of its ability any circumstance that may occur in the future. This may require full MARC membership from its Regions. As stated earlier -stay tuned.

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

Thanks Joe, with the stay tuned comment, and that fact that you did not directly answer the two pointed questions I had, can I infer that the answers to these questions have not been decided by MARC leadership yet?

Don't get me wrong, I personally feel INDIVIDUAL membership in MARC is well worth the $38. And yeah, that's less than a tank of gas. But I'm telling you flat out, we have scores of members who will not renew in our club if their dues were to increase by the $38. If we were forced to require MARC membership in our club to continue to be a Region of MARC, our clear choice would be to no longer be a region of MARC. It's a simple matter of economics.

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

Why can you not just join the National organization and they designate you to the chapter of your choice and forward a portion of your yearly dues to the local chapter. As I see it the local chapters are predominately social function groups. IMO
Wayne

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

what if there is no local group to join? what happens to the portion you want to be forwarded?

I appears to me that a lot of those posting here have the relationship backwards as far as national clubs and local clubs go.

The local club is the local representative of the national club. It is a place where those that belong to the national club meet locally.

It is not a local car club that affiliates it's self with a national club.

As mentioned before, by way of actual correspondence with MARC insurance representatives, If one wants to be covered by the national club insurance, one has to be a member of the national club.

Let me try this, if you want hagarty to pay your claim you need to pay hagarty for a policy. Hagarty will not cover your car just because you own an old car.

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

Will, you are correct in that final decisions have not been made yet (sorry about the dancing). It would be very difficult to police the membership requirement, and in the end I suspect MARC (and the insurer) would rely on the honesty of the Regions to comply. However, ultimately the insurer must decide whether to cover non-MARC members of Regions and whether to issue special event coverage to Regions that do not conform to the rules. MARC is not the insurer and to my knowledge has no authority to issue coverage on its own. And as we all know, things seem to go very smoothly until something happens, then the ....well, you know. There must be a set of rules and constrictions that will allow an insurer to cover the almost 8,000 members of MARC and their guests at events, but also at a reasonable cost to MARC. This Board is working very hard at finding that sweet spot of coverage vs. cost and at the same time trying to retain its membership. Please be patient as I'm confident there will be fair decisions and announcements made soon.

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

[QUOTE=Mike V. Florida;893334]

The local club is the local representative of the national club. It is a place where those that belong to the national club meet locally.

By that statement then if you join the local club are you not in fact joining the National? And if you are required to join the National to be affiliated with the local are you not then joining the National twice?

I had a thought on this. As a past President of a local chapter of SPAAMFAA (antique fire apparatus collectors) I suggested that the National organization charge the local chapters a yearly fee (dues) to be affiliated with the National and its benefits and then the local chapter could adjust its membership dues to cover this yearly expense. A whole new can of worms opened up with that one.

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

[QUOTE=firetique57;893347]

Re: MARC enforcing Region membership requirement
 

I'm a simple guy so maybe I just don't get it. I don't understand all the apparent confusion in this thread.

If you want the national magazine you have to belong to the national organization.

If you want the national insurance you have to belong to the national organization.

Some clubs automatically include the national dues in the local club dues and passes them on to national. Some don't do that.

MARC is asking for an audit to see how many members of the local clubs are also members of the national club.

That's it that's all there is to it. MARC is not kicking anyone out of the local clubs, they are not shutting down local clubs.

After reading two pages of this I see that they do need to get the message out that if you are not a member of the national club you will not receive the benefits of the nation club just because you belong to the local club, period.

Can you belong to a local cub and not the national one, yes but you will not receive the benefits.