B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

I bought some of these steering ball studs from Macs a while ago and I couldn't use them because the tapered part is too big. I put them on one side and recently ordered some more from C&G. I telephoned C&G (from England, a transatlantic call,) and specifically asked if the ball studs fit the steering arms, and could they do a physical check before sending them (as I had a problem before). I was assured they do not get them from macs and they look right.

Guess what? While obviously different from the Macs ones, they are wrong in exactly the same way. The taper is too big a diameter.

Being across the pond, it isn't easy to send stuff back, so I did what I should have done the first time around, modified them myself to fit correctly.

But why is it that 2 suppliers have it wrong? How come it takes me, 3000+ miles away to have to point it out to them?

It's a good job I have a nice Myford lathe and an engineering apprenticeship history.

Here are a few pics:

1, An early ford steering ball stud in a 37-41 pitman arm (same taper).
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...pse9f2544a.jpg

2, A Macs steering ball in the same piece.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...psf143730d.jpg

3, A C&G ball stud in the same piece. Note the similar fit.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...ps4f6eb52c.jpg

4, Here's my makeshift setup in the Myford Lathe.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...ps72d45ecb.jpg

5, To turn a taper you have to set the topslide at an angle. half of 7 degrees is 3-1/2 degrees.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...ps15fcee62.jpg

6, Here we have, (L-R), an original Ford stud, a modified Mac's stud, an unmodified Macs stud, an unmodified C&G stud, a modified C&G stud, and another early ford one.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...ps21a84975.jpg

You can see why I wanted some new ones.

Anyone else had this problem?

Mart.

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

Hi Mart:

I am Always trying to learn > so that being said < where did the 7 Degrees come from ? Also by going by 1/2 = 3 1/2 Degrees does that establish the proper angle of the taper ???

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

Jeez, I remember the ones from Argentina in the '60s being the same...not a "new" problem. Like you (I'm sure), I've always pondered why so much "useless" junk has been "reproduced"... well...so inaccurately. DD

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

Bill, yeah, if you are turning a taper you have to set the topslide to half of the desired angle. 7 degrees is (more or less) an industry standard.

Coopman, yes, you're right, I think the problem is the parts now are copies of copies of copies, and things have drifted. I had the same problem with shackle bushes. I am fed up of buying and shipping stuff long distances to find that it is no good.

Mart.

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

Look up Richard EV8 garage...or contact him at his business site. He mentioned this a while back, and said that he had actually persuaded Mac's to fix the problem. Did they??
Has anyone ordered any of these from them in the last year or so?

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

Just out of curiosity... was the taper the correct degree but simply too large?
Drake steering wheels are that way. The correct taper but no one seems to know enough to check the diameter of the end. One wheel was too tight and two were way too loose. The correct taper all three times...

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

Yeah, the angle is right, but the diameter is too big. It is very important to get the diameter right, because for every few thou error, the linear displacement is multiplied by (I think) about 12 times.

Mart.

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

7 degrees is the correct angle for a wedge fit, so that is why you get that angle. As far as them being too big, I bought a couple from Spadero many years ago that were the right size.

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

Mac's has the correct ones, but they and others obviously also have the old incorrect ones that they are selling. Before I was able to work with Mac's to have them corrected (several years ago) I had a tapered mill cutter made and actually cut the taper in the spindle arm deeper until 1/2" of thread was exposed as is the original. That was a good fix, but was also a major PITA, as I did not have a bunch to do at one time, so had to do the setup every time I needed to do a pair...
I grew tired of it and sent them an original stud, a new incorrect stud and the end of a spindle arm with the correct taper. This made the problem very obvious and something was done about it.

The incorrect studs have a silver finish, while the correct ones have a black finish. I am a dealer for Mac's so I will contact them and see what the current situation is...

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

I only asked as I was (prior to retirement) a tool & die maker as well as the quailty control person for everything coming out of the tool room.
Like the Drake steering wheels I'd mentioned in an earlier post, it amazes me how poorly some of this stuff is produced.
Tapers are fairly easy to produce. Doesn't anyone know that they must be checked for diameter too? A rhetorical question as the answer is obvious.

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

Apart from the entirely valid concerns regarding taper and diameter, what about the metallurgy? The color of a NOS ball stud tells you that it has undergone heat treating and the colors of the reproductions in the photo above shows no such evidence. These are kind of life-threatening parts if they fail in use. Does anyone believe that the metallurgy of these parts and others like them are equal to the originals? Not I.

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

Dave, That occurred to me as well. I looked at the picture of the lathe cutter, carbide tip for certain and the chips... just seemed to be cutting it way too easily for a properly hardened part.

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

I bought a taper reamer from Speedway. Might be an easier way (enlarge hole) if the need be.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/AFCO-8...ree,23738.html

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

The ones I bought from Macs a year or so ago had the taper wrong. They sat down in the hole like an original, but you could wobble it a little. In checking with a caliper, the taper at the big end was a few thousands too small and at the small end, it was a few thousands too big. I can't remember the exact numbers, but I've got a pile of them sitting on the desk in the garage.

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

I have bought the correct ones from the Early Ford Store in San Dimas and Joblot in NY. Both of these were supplied in a black oxide finish, leading me to believe they were heat treated. The ones I bought from C&G were zinc plated and too large of taper. They went in the scrap bin...

Neal

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

Thanks for the heads up Neal, I went ahead and ordered one from the Early Ford Store.

Edit: Call the store a specifically ask for the correct ones, they aren't listed on the site.

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

I see a further problem in enlarging the female taper in the steering arm in order to make the parts fit, in that once enlarged, original [dimensioned] male components will no longer ever possibly be made to fit. Marts solution is better, and in fact is the correct approach, but the heat treatment and metallergy of this reproduction stuff is surely questionable too.
Mart raises very valid points in this post

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

Could someone let me know what/who c&g is?

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

Just Google C & G Ford parts in Escondido,CA.

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

Mart you are absolutely correct, why do these suppliers make parts which are incorrect and the wrong sizes. How hard would it be to make pieces the correct size? Surely it wouldn't take any more effort to make parts which are the correct sizes? Is this stuff a copy of a copy of a copy?

It's just laziness on the part of the supplier to not get it correct.

I've just noticed mart started this thread three years ago - I wonder if the problem has been resolved and they make the correct size parts now?

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

Bringing this up after a pm asking for the pics.

I'll paste the original post here and try and patch the pics in. (can't edit the original post)

I bought some of these steering ball studs from Macs a while ago and I couldn't use them because the tapered part is too big. I put them on one side and recently ordered some more from C&G. I telephoned C&G (from England, a transatlantic call,) and specifically asked if the ball studs fit the steering arms, and could they do a physical check before sending them (as I had a problem before). I was assured they do not get them from macs and they look right.

Guess what? While obviously different from the Macs ones, they are wrong in exactly the same way. The taper is too big a diameter.

Being across the pond, it isn't easy to send stuff back, so I did what I should have done the first time around, modified them myself to fit correctly.

But why is it that 2 suppliers have it wrong? How come it takes me, 3000+ miles away to have to point it out to them?

It's a good job I have a nice Myford lathe and an engineering apprenticeship history.

Here are a few pics:

1, An early ford steering ball stud in a 37-41 pitman arm (same taper).


2, A Macs steering ball in the same piece.


3, A C&G ball stud in the same piece. Note the similar fit.


4, Here's my makeshift setup in the Myford Lathe.


5, To turn a taper you have to set the topslide at an angle. half of 7 degrees is 3-1/2 degrees.


6, Here we have, (L-R), an original Ford stud, a modified Mac's stud, an unmodified Macs stud, an unmodified C&G stud, a modified C&G stud, and another early ford one.


You can see why I wanted some new ones.

Anyone else had this problem?

Mart.

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

Great explanation. Thanks Mart

Just for the record, I purchased ball studs on ebay from vendor "1935fordtn" and they fit perfect. I have purchased other parts from them as well and have always been happy.

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

I just went through this same situation ordering from Thirdgenford... what a pain in the @ss. I machined mine down as the way Mart did with success but now doubting whether they are heat treated. I ordered some from Early Ford Store sounds like they have the correct ones.

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

Hmmm.....That's interesting, because "1935fordtn" in post #23 above is the same folks as ThirdGenFord in post #24 above. What's with that?

Coop

.

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

Wondering the same thing! I personally have not used on of these in five years. There are currently three mfr’s of them and two are garbage. I have not had one single complaint as of yet on them and this is news to me amd we have sold a bunch of them. I rely on the buyers to give me feedback if a part doesn’t fit so I can personally test fit and either fix it or discontinue the item.
I guess I know what one of the many things I’ll be doing tommorow is.

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

Michael, post #23 was in 2018 and #24 was yesterday if that makes a difference.



Terry

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

Terry I saw that but we purchased a large quantity in 2017 so parts sold today should have been identical to then. I plan to scope it out. The post #24 never reached out to us as a customer with a complaint so I have no idea when his was purchased

Re: B-3311 steering ball. Taper too big.
 

I need to retract my statement from ealrier... I found when I purchased these pivot balls and it was through CW Moss. Here is the package it was in, clearly does not have the Thirdgen sticker, but it carries the same B-3311 part number that all the others advertise.