The Ford Barn

Larry Jenkins · 02-10-2016, 05:01 PM

Front brake rod return springs. The later wire type.

I have the rears in place. They function well.

I need some help understanding how the fronts assemble. Here's the scenario..You are standing on the left side of the car.

Body is off.
The front of the car is to your left.
The rear is to your right.
You are looking at the left front brake rod. You see the raised "upset" in the rod where the spring rests against.

Does the bottom loop in the wire go to the right of the upset or to the left of the upset?

Larry

2manycars · 02-10-2016, 05:05 PM

All the anti rattler springs are mounted so that they help retract the brake rod to the off position, which is to the center of the car. The fronts are installed on the front side of the upset, to retract the rod back to normal. (brakes not applied).

Patrick L. · 02-10-2016, 05:07 PM

The springs job is to release the brakes.

The rods are pulled to apply the brakes and pushed by the springs to release. So the front rods are pulled to the rear to apply and the rear rods are pulled forward to apply. The springs return the rods to the released position.

Another point. The spring should be installed on the frame bracket side closest to the wheel in order to try and exert the most force toward the wheel upon release. [ To help exert more force, I've added black painted washers to try and help old worn springs to be better at their job.]

Larry Jenkins · 02-10-2016, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

The springs job is to release the brakes.

The rods are pulled to apply the brakes and pushed by the springs to release. So the front rods are pulled to the rear to apply and the rear rods are pulled forward to apply. The springs return the rods to the released position.

That I know. Now, which side of the upset as described for the fronts?

Larry Jenkins · 02-10-2016, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2manycars

All the anti rattler springs are mounted so that they help retract the brake rod to the off position, which is to the center of the car. The fronts are installed on the front side of the upset, to retract the rod back to normal. (brakes not applied).

The front rods "pull back." Please explain returning the rods..

Yes, this 84 year older is not seeing what you say..

Larry

Bob C · 02-10-2016, 05:49 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 2manycars

All the anti rattler springs are mounted so that they help retract the brake rod to the off position, which is to the center of the car. The fronts are installed on the front side of the upset, to retract the rod back to normal. (brakes not applied).

You sure about that. When you apply the brakes you are pulling
the rods towards the center of the car. Off would be towards the
front of the car for the front brakes.

Bob

Patrick L. · 02-10-2016, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Jenkins

That I know. Now, which side of the upset as described for the fronts?

Since the rods are pulled, then the springs need to be installed so they now push the rod to the released position. The released position is toward the front on the front, so, by my thinking, and memory, the spring would push against the the 'rear' [ right] side of the upset if facing the car on the left side.

2manycars · 02-10-2016, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob C

You sure about that. When you apply the brakes you are pulling
the rods towards the center of the car. Off would be towards the
front of the car for the front brakes.

Bob

You are right Bob, I got that part wrong. Sorry.

Larry Jenkins · 02-10-2016, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

Since the rods are pulled, then the springs need to be installed so they now push the rod to the released position. The released position is toward the front on the front, so, by my thinking, and memory, the spring would push against the the 'rear' [ right] side of the upset if facing the car on the left side.

Kinda what I thought. Now, how to get the back end of the rod (The "pin" hole boss) through the spring hole..

I'll take them apart and see if I can get the pin hole boss though the spring hole.

Ain't we havin fun!

Larry

Patrick L. · 02-10-2016, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Jenkins

Kinda what I thought. Now, how to get the back end of the rod (The "pin" hole boss) through the spring hole..

I'll take them apart and see if I can get the pin hole boss though the spring hole.

Ain't we havin fun!

Larry

Measure center to center distance of the rod, remove clevis, install spring and reassemble if you can't get the end thru the spring eye.

Larry Jenkins · 02-10-2016, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

Measure center to center distance of the rod, remove clevis, install spring and reassemble if you can't get the end thru the spring eye.

That's what I did, and it's on the left side of the upset. Should be to the right of the offset. Front and rear rods pull towards the center.

What am I missing?

Patrick L. · 02-10-2016, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Jenkins

That's what I did, and it's on the left side of the upset. Should be to the right of the offset. Front and rear rods pull towards the center.

What am I missing?

Seems like you have the clevis's at the wheels rather than the cross shaft.

Larry Jenkins · 02-10-2016, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

Seems like you have the clevis's at the wheels rather than the cross shaft.

I always thought the clevis was on the front, because of the ease of adjusting rod length.. I seem to recall seeing pictures of that.

Can someone show me images of the clevis at the Service brake cross shaft? It's not in Les's books nor the Service Bulletins..

Tom; Mitch; Brent; Pluck? Others? Getting confusing..

harleytoprock · 02-10-2016, 10:13 PM

With the view you described in your first post, the spring is to the right of the upset. A better way to describe it is that the spring is pushing the upset forward to the front of the car for the front rods. In other words the spring is pushing the rod towards the brake. On the front brakes, the adjusting clevis is at the brake side.

Bob C · 02-10-2016, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Jenkins

I always thought the clevis was on the front, because of the ease of adjusting rod length.. I seem to recall seeing pictures of that.

Can someone show me images of the clevis at the Service brake cross shaft? It's not in Les's books nor the Service Bulletins..

Tom; Mitch; Brent; Pluck? Others? Getting confusing..

See page 300 of the Service Bulletins.

Bob

Keith True · 02-10-2016, 10:27 PM

On the spring type anti-rattlers I have the loop for the upset is oblong,the brake rod eye goes right through it.All clevis's go on the forward ends of the brake rods.All six of them.The anti-rattlers push the front brake rods to the front of the car,and the rear brake rods to the rear of the car.Remember,the brake rods pull,not push.

Tom Wesenberg · 02-10-2016, 11:22 PM

With repro brake rods I find the rear of the front rods are a bit wider than original ends, and I have to grind them thinner to fit through the slot in the flat springs.

Aren't the wire springs just bent to form an oval loop, so they can easily be spread a little if need be?

Larry Jenkins · 02-10-2016, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith True

On the spring type anti-rattlers I have the loop for the upset is oblong,the brake rod eye goes right through it.All clevis's go on the forward ends of the brake rods.All six of them.The anti-rattlers push the front brake rods to the front of the car,and the rear brake rods to the rear of the car.Remember,the brake rods pull,not push.

Finally.. Thank you Keith.

Tom.. Got the wire springs from Snyders. Will see tomorrow if I have to pry them open a little. Actually, they should fit through the oblong hole like Keith said.

This was a tough nut to crack..

Thanks to all!

Larry

Patrick L. · 02-11-2016, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob C

See page 300 of the Service Bulletins.

Bob

I wish I had access to them right now, won't for a few months.

Mine had the clevis's at the brakes, but, seems like I saw or read they should be at the cross shaft so thats where I put them as I think I may have had a similar issue as Larry.

I don't think it makes a difference where they are except for judging standards.

Tom Wesenberg · 02-11-2016, 10:58 AM

Unless the UPSET is in the exact middle of the brake rods, it will make a difference.
The clevises all face the front of the car.

02-10-2016, 05:01 PM	#1
Larry Jenkins BANNED Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: East Central Iowa Posts: 1,275	Let me ask it a different way.. Front brake rod return springs. The later wire type. I have the rears in place. They function well. I need some help understanding how the fronts assemble. Here's the scenario..You are standing on the left side of the car. Body is off. The front of the car is to your left. The rear is to your right. You are looking at the left front brake rod. You see the raised "upset" in the rod where the spring rests against. Does the bottom loop in the wire go to the right of the upset or to the left of the upset? Larry __________________ Good enough.. Isn't.

02-10-2016, 05:05 PM	#2
2manycars Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern CT Posts: 2,732	Re: Let me ask it a different way.. All the anti rattler springs are mounted so that they help retract the brake rod to the off position, which is to the center of the car. The fronts are installed on the front side of the upset, to retract the rod back to normal. (brakes not applied).

02-10-2016, 05:07 PM	#3
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Let me ask it a different way.. The springs job is to release the brakes. The rods are pulled to apply the brakes and pushed by the springs to release. So the front rods are pulled to the rear to apply and the rear rods are pulled forward to apply. The springs return the rods to the released position. Another point. The spring should be installed on the frame bracket side closest to the wheel in order to try and exert the most force toward the wheel upon release. [ To help exert more force, I've added black painted washers to try and help old worn springs to be better at their job.] Last edited by Patrick L.; 02-10-2016 at 05:35 PM.

02-10-2016, 10:13 PM	#14
harleytoprock Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 438	Re: Let me ask it a different way.. With the view you described in your first post, the spring is to the right of the upset. A better way to describe it is that the spring is pushing the upset forward to the front of the car for the front rods. In other words the spring is pushing the rod towards the brake. On the front brakes, the adjusting clevis is at the brake side.

02-10-2016, 10:27 PM	#16
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,984	Re: Let me ask it a different way.. On the spring type anti-rattlers I have the loop for the upset is oblong,the brake rod eye goes right through it.All clevis's go on the forward ends of the brake rods.All six of them.The anti-rattlers push the front brake rods to the front of the car,and the rear brake rods to the rear of the car.Remember,the brake rods pull,not push.

02-10-2016, 11:22 PM	#17
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Let me ask it a different way.. With repro brake rods I find the rear of the front rods are a bit wider than original ends, and I have to grind them thinner to fit through the slot in the flat springs. Aren't the wire springs just bent to form an oval loop, so they can easily be spread a little if need be?

02-11-2016, 10:58 AM	#20
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Let me ask it a different way.. Unless the UPSET is in the exact middle of the brake rods, it will make a difference. The clevises all face the front of the car.