The Ford Barn

dalton · 02-09-2016, 05:54 PM

Just to be clear, I haven't driven this car yet. I am still in the process of putting it together.

I have a bad coolant leak that is dripping from the wishbone ball area. I filled the engine with Evapo-rust to soak. Just a few minutes later I had puddle about 10" in diameter. Where could it be coming from?

kenparker · 02-09-2016, 06:25 PM

coolant does not drip off the wishball unless the block is cracked somewhere in the rear area or the back studs are leaking or the headgasket is leaking in the very rear area. Check out the leaking gasket or studs before you cuss at the crack.

Mitch//pa · 02-09-2016, 06:57 PM

You may get a better view of the rear with the toe board out.... If you see nothing look inside the inspection cover on the bell...

dalton · 02-09-2016, 07:39 PM

The toe board is out Mitch. I didn't see anything on the back of the engine. I even removed the throttle assembly to see if it was coming from there.

I have drained the fluid from the block so I'll remove the inspection cover fill and look again.

dalton · 02-09-2016, 07:39 PM

Ken,

I hope the leak isn't a crack, but you never know. The head gasket is weeping, barely, so, because I haven't had a chance to "seat" the gasket or run Bar's or liquid glass so I'm not worried about that quite yet.

dalton · 02-09-2016, 07:41 PM

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DJ,

It happened so fast, oatmeal would have held it. literally, by the time I set the bucket down, there was a puddle.

DJ S · 02-09-2016, 08:23 PM

Through my initial reading I didn't pay close enough attention to detail so it sounded like you poured in the evapo-rust, walked away and hours later you returned to this large puddle you described. Without ever driving it before, it could be numerous things that have already been stated. Internal/external crack or head gasket leak.

dalton · 02-09-2016, 08:44 PM

Thanks DJ,

I may not have been clear about the time frame. I just hope whatever it is is repairable by me or at reasonable cost.

larrys40 · 02-09-2016, 09:06 PM

It is probably leaking somewhere at a block seam ( head or another gasket ) and lastly but hooefully not a crack, and Its following the pan or from wishbone to the rear. There's no substitute for a careful inspection from back at the leak to front to see where it comes from. I seriously doubt it's actually at the rear if the block. Look carefully with the lights at all areas, pan rails, even bottom of water pump at the head and front of block area.
I'm confident you will find it . Be methodical in you inspection and relentless to find it!

Larry Shepard

dalton · 02-09-2016, 09:55 PM

Larry, I have checked twice now, but will certainly check again before disassembly as I have a vested interest in you be correct!

With no external moisture on the block, except slight drips down the drivers side behind the number pad, nothing behind the block(around the throttle assembly), and nothing under the pan flange, I fear the leak is inside the flywheel housing.

Tom Wesenberg · 02-09-2016, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalton

Larry, I have checked twice now, but will certainly check again before disassembly as I have a vested interest in you be correct!

With no external moisture on the block, except slight drips down the drivers side behind the number pad, nothing behind the block(around the throttle assembly), and nothing under the pan flange, I fear the leak is inside the flywheel housing.

I can't think of any way for coolant to get inside the flywheel cover. I bought an engine at an auction about 10years ago and it has a crack inside the valve chamber, so coolant can get inside the engine. But I can't see how it would get from there to the flywheel cover.

jeep44 · 02-09-2016, 10:49 PM

As an old Pipefitter, one of my most useful tools in tracking down leaks was a BRIGHT flashlight-the drops of liquid shine like diamonds when you're searching for a leak.
Did you use those original-type hose clamps? Start by checking around the inlet and outlet hoses-I've ended up replacing all my old-style clamps with worm-gear Aviation hose clamps because they seal so much better.

Chuck Sea/Tac · 02-09-2016, 11:21 PM

I had a water pump leak that dripped off the rear of the engine. Water will drip a long ways sometimes,from the actuAl leak. You can dry things and use Kleenex ect to follow the path, because it shows wet fast. As mentioned, check you're hoses ect.

jetmek · 02-09-2016, 11:41 PM

Ill second the water pump leak...itll run back along the pan rail

kenparker · 02-10-2016, 08:08 AM

Jeep44 is right. One of those small flashlights with 1" dia LED lens can do wonders for tracking down problems. Bright light and look 1 sq in at the time.

2manycars · 02-10-2016, 09:56 AM

Did you check the oil level on the dip stick to see if the level is high? that may indicate a leak into the internals of the engine. I have never heard of anyone putting evaporust in the cooling system. Perhaps it ate through a thin spot in the block.
Maybe filling the cooling system again and watching the leak to trace back where it is coming from would help.

CarlG · 02-10-2016, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeep44

...Did you use those original-type hose clamps? Start by checking around the inlet and outlet hoses-I've ended up replacing all my old-style clamps with worm-gear Aviation hose clamps because they seal so much better.

These are what I use:

dalton · 02-10-2016, 10:55 AM

Guys, I will be tracking down this leak the best I can. These are all good suggestions and I will be heeding the advice.

I haven't checked the oil, so I will do that first. If in the 2 or so minutes that the evapo-rust was in the block it ate through it would have to have been so thin/already cracked that water would have done also. Because it happened almost instantly, I feel the cause of the leak was already there. Evapo-rust doesn't damage good metal. It may slightly etch the surface after a period of time.

I have looked and felt around the oil pan already with no liquid found, but will be it doing again. I like the idea of using the flashlight and the tissue paper together to double check, and will do so all around the engine.

The water pump is newly rebuilt and hasn't been run, but I'm sure I could have screwed that up! But, this is happening without the engine running so I really hope I din't mess up that bad.

Tom Wesenberg, I wonder if there is a crack in the valve chamber or elsewhere and it is filling the crankcase with water. Could it be acting like a rear main leak?

I'll check back in and report my findings when I have had a chance to perform these checks.

dalton · 02-10-2016, 10:57 AM

The hose clamps are the modern worm gear style, but I will check there also.

dalton · 02-10-2016, 12:18 PM

I found these old threads, and led me to the concern of the leak originating inside the flywheel housing. I don't necessarily think its a flywheel housing bolt, but more a crack in the block.

I need to head out to the garage to start looking at things and get away from the keyboard.

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117767

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71973

dalton · 02-10-2016, 02:40 PM

Ok, I have some news to report. After careful examination of all areas, I believe the leak is coming from the water jacket near where the throttle assembly bolt(passenger side) goes. I was wrong about it leaking out of the flywheel housing. I found water dripping down the front of the flywheel housing on the passenger side. I then traced that up and around the block where it meets the flywheel housing. I couldn't find its origin so I removed the throttle assembly and the beads of water revealed themselves.

Now, what are your thoughts? I am thinking about removing the body to better access the area and try a JB Weld repair as I am going to need to do to the front of the bloc in the typical place. Or should I just try a stop leak?

Now before you thin I'm too crazy, I just put the body on the chassis. No doors, gas tank, glass, wood, wiring, floors, seats, interior etc. I just put it on and am only 12 bolts away from lifting it back off.

Big hammer · 02-10-2016, 04:31 PM

Don't go crazy on use yet, keep the body on for now. Clean around the bolt hole and look for cracks, dope a bolt with a good sealer like permatex and see if this stops the leak. Someone may have installed a bolt that was to long and broke out the bottom of the threaded bolt hole into the water jacket.

jeep44 · 02-10-2016, 05:43 PM

I'd wrap the bolts with teflon tape, AND put pipe sealer on them before screwing them back in

dalton · 02-10-2016, 08:35 PM

I don't believe that the lea is from the bolt hole, the bolt was dry when I removed the throttle assembly. I think it is next to the bolt hole. I put a mirror in there and could see what looks like a small hole or crusty spot. Of course we mow how tight it is between the firewall and the back of the engine. I'll be loping some more before I do anything too drastic.

I am relieved that I didn't find water in the crankcase and that I was initially wrong about where it was dripping from.

Thanks for all of your help!

Redbird · 02-11-2016, 07:45 AM

Have a friend pour some more water while you are looking at the suspected areas.

dalton · 02-11-2016, 01:50 PM

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Redbird, I'm not sure I understand.

dalton · 03-27-2016, 08:31 PM

Ok, so a little update.

I found that the leaks were small cracks in the water jackets. One in the front of the block at the bottom of the water jacket, and one in the rear of the block just above the passenger side throttle assembly bolt.

Unfortunately, I had to lift the body. It wasn't that bad as the car is only partially assembled. So, 12 bolts later and a few 2 x 4's to block it up for access, I carefully V'ed out the hairline crack with my cutoff wheel, cleaned as best I could with paint thinner, and dried out the block and cracks with a hair dryer for several hours. I made up a mixture of the Original JB Weld and allowed it some time to set up. The quick set JB Weld isn't nearly as durable. After it set up slightly, I smeared it into the crack and kept an eye on it. It did "ooze" out a bit but I smeared it back in. After a few hours, it was mostly hardened, but slightly soft still so I took some 100 grit sand paper and pushed it into JB Weld giving an appearance of cast iron. Not to bad.

I let it set for several weeks as I was busy with work and other projects around the house.

Today I put water in the system and it is not leaking.

I know that the real test will come when I have the car drivable, and is getting hot and cold, but for now, I'm happy with the result.

I will probably put in the Bar's Stop Leak when I get it drivable as a preventative measure.

02-09-2016, 05:54 PM	#1
dalton Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Orlando Posts: 80	Water Leaks Just to be clear, I haven't driven this car yet. I am still in the process of putting it together. I have a bad coolant leak that is dripping from the wishbone ball area. I filled the engine with Evapo-rust to soak. Just a few minutes later I had puddle about 10" in diameter. Where could it be coming from?

02-09-2016, 06:25 PM	#2
kenparker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Van, Texas Posts: 1,122	Re: Water Leaks coolant does not drip off the wishball unless the block is cracked somewhere in the rear area or the back studs are leaking or the headgasket is leaking in the very rear area. Check out the leaking gasket or studs before you cuss at the crack.

02-09-2016, 06:57 PM	#3
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Water Leaks You may get a better view of the rear with the toe board out.... If you see nothing look inside the inspection cover on the bell...

02-09-2016, 07:39 PM	#4
dalton Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Orlando Posts: 80	Re: Water Leaks The toe board is out Mitch. I didn't see anything on the back of the engine. I even removed the throttle assembly to see if it was coming from there. I have drained the fluid from the block so I'll remove the inspection cover fill and look again. Last edited by dalton; 02-09-2016 at 07:43 PM. Reason: wrong word

02-09-2016, 07:39 PM	#5
dalton Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Orlando Posts: 80	Re: Water Leaks Ken, I hope the leak isn't a crack, but you never know. The head gasket is weeping, barely, so, because I haven't had a chance to "seat" the gasket or run Bar's or liquid glass so I'm not worried about that quite yet.

02-09-2016, 07:41 PM	#6
dalton Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Orlando Posts: 80	Re: Water Leaks Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) DJ, It happened so fast, oatmeal would have held it. literally, by the time I set the bucket down, there was a puddle.

02-09-2016, 08:23 PM	#7
DJ S Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Southwick, MA Posts: 590	Re: Water Leaks Through my initial reading I didn't pay close enough attention to detail so it sounded like you poured in the evapo-rust, walked away and hours later you returned to this large puddle you described. Without ever driving it before, it could be numerous things that have already been stated. Internal/external crack or head gasket leak.

02-09-2016, 08:44 PM	#8
dalton Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Orlando Posts: 80	Re: Water Leaks Thanks DJ, I may not have been clear about the time frame. I just hope whatever it is is repairable by me or at reasonable cost.

02-09-2016, 09:06 PM	#9
larrys40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St Charles , Missouri Posts: 1,998	Re: Water Leaks It is probably leaking somewhere at a block seam ( head or another gasket ) and lastly but hooefully not a crack, and Its following the pan or from wishbone to the rear. There's no substitute for a careful inspection from back at the leak to front to see where it comes from. I seriously doubt it's actually at the rear if the block. Look carefully with the lights at all areas, pan rails, even bottom of water pump at the head and front of block area. I'm confident you will find it . Be methodical in you inspection and relentless to find it! Larry Shepard

02-09-2016, 09:55 PM	#10
dalton Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Orlando Posts: 80	Re: Water Leaks Larry, I have checked twice now, but will certainly check again before disassembly as I have a vested interest in you be correct! With no external moisture on the block, except slight drips down the drivers side behind the number pad, nothing behind the block(around the throttle assembly), and nothing under the pan flange, I fear the leak is inside the flywheel housing.

02-09-2016, 10:49 PM	#12
jeep44 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: canton,michigan Posts: 312	Re: Water Leaks As an old Pipefitter, one of my most useful tools in tracking down leaks was a BRIGHT flashlight-the drops of liquid shine like diamonds when you're searching for a leak. Did you use those original-type hose clamps? Start by checking around the inlet and outlet hoses-I've ended up replacing all my old-style clamps with worm-gear Aviation hose clamps because they seal so much better.

02-09-2016, 11:21 PM	#13
Chuck Sea/Tac Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma Posts: 2,354	Re: Water Leaks I had a water pump leak that dripped off the rear of the engine. Water will drip a long ways sometimes,from the actuAl leak. You can dry things and use Kleenex ect to follow the path, because it shows wet fast. As mentioned, check you're hoses ect.

02-09-2016, 11:41 PM	#14
jetmek Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: albany Posts: 466	Re: Water Leaks Ill second the water pump leak...itll run back along the pan rail __________________ engine and component overhauls my specialty! Website- www.godevilgarage.com

02-10-2016, 08:08 AM	#15
kenparker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Van, Texas Posts: 1,122	Re: Water Leaks Jeep44 is right. One of those small flashlights with 1" dia LED lens can do wonders for tracking down problems. Bright light and look 1 sq in at the time.

02-10-2016, 09:56 AM	#16
2manycars Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern CT Posts: 2,732	Re: Water Leaks Did you check the oil level on the dip stick to see if the level is high? that may indicate a leak into the internals of the engine. I have never heard of anyone putting evaporust in the cooling system. Perhaps it ate through a thin spot in the block. Maybe filling the cooling system again and watching the leak to trace back where it is coming from would help.

02-10-2016, 10:55 AM	#18
dalton Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Orlando Posts: 80	Re: Water Leaks Guys, I will be tracking down this leak the best I can. These are all good suggestions and I will be heeding the advice. I haven't checked the oil, so I will do that first. If in the 2 or so minutes that the evapo-rust was in the block it ate through it would have to have been so thin/already cracked that water would have done also. Because it happened almost instantly, I feel the cause of the leak was already there. Evapo-rust doesn't damage good metal. It may slightly etch the surface after a period of time. I have looked and felt around the oil pan already with no liquid found, but will be it doing again. I like the idea of using the flashlight and the tissue paper together to double check, and will do so all around the engine. The water pump is newly rebuilt and hasn't been run, but I'm sure I could have screwed that up! But, this is happening without the engine running so I really hope I din't mess up that bad. Tom Wesenberg, I wonder if there is a crack in the valve chamber or elsewhere and it is filling the crankcase with water. Could it be acting like a rear main leak? I'll check back in and report my findings when I have had a chance to perform these checks.

02-10-2016, 10:57 AM	#19
dalton Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Orlando Posts: 80	Re: Water Leaks The hose clamps are the modern worm gear style, but I will check there also.

02-10-2016, 12:18 PM	#20
dalton Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Orlando Posts: 80	Re: Water Leaks I found these old threads, and led me to the concern of the leak originating inside the flywheel housing. I don't necessarily think its a flywheel housing bolt, but more a crack in the block. I need to head out to the garage to start looking at things and get away from the keyboard. http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117767 http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71973

02-10-2016, 02:40 PM	#21
dalton Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Orlando Posts: 80	Re: Water Leaks Ok, I have some news to report. After careful examination of all areas, I believe the leak is coming from the water jacket near where the throttle assembly bolt(passenger side) goes. I was wrong about it leaking out of the flywheel housing. I found water dripping down the front of the flywheel housing on the passenger side. I then traced that up and around the block where it meets the flywheel housing. I couldn't find its origin so I removed the throttle assembly and the beads of water revealed themselves. Now, what are your thoughts? I am thinking about removing the body to better access the area and try a JB Weld repair as I am going to need to do to the front of the bloc in the typical place. Or should I just try a stop leak? Now before you thin I'm too crazy, I just put the body on the chassis. No doors, gas tank, glass, wood, wiring, floors, seats, interior etc. I just put it on and am only 12 bolts away from lifting it back off.

02-10-2016, 04:31 PM	#22
Big hammer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Land of Lincoln Posts: 3,131	Re: Water Leaks Don't go crazy on use yet, keep the body on for now. Clean around the bolt hole and look for cracks, dope a bolt with a good sealer like permatex and see if this stops the leak. Someone may have installed a bolt that was to long and broke out the bottom of the threaded bolt hole into the water jacket.

02-10-2016, 05:43 PM	#23
jeep44 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: canton,michigan Posts: 312	Re: Water Leaks I'd wrap the bolts with teflon tape, AND put pipe sealer on them before screwing them back in

02-10-2016, 08:35 PM	#24
dalton Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Orlando Posts: 80	Re: Water Leaks I don't believe that the lea is from the bolt hole, the bolt was dry when I removed the throttle assembly. I think it is next to the bolt hole. I put a mirror in there and could see what looks like a small hole or crusty spot. Of course we mow how tight it is between the firewall and the back of the engine. I'll be loping some more before I do anything too drastic. I am relieved that I didn't find water in the crankcase and that I was initially wrong about where it was dripping from. Thanks for all of your help!

02-11-2016, 07:45 AM	#25
Redbird Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Georgetown, TX Posts: 535	Re: Water Leaks Have a friend pour some more water while you are looking at the suspected areas.

02-11-2016, 01:50 PM	#26
dalton Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Orlando Posts: 80	Re: Water Leaks Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Redbird, I'm not sure I understand.

03-27-2016, 08:31 PM	#27
dalton Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Orlando Posts: 80	Re: Water Leaks Ok, so a little update. I found that the leaks were small cracks in the water jackets. One in the front of the block at the bottom of the water jacket, and one in the rear of the block just above the passenger side throttle assembly bolt. Unfortunately, I had to lift the body. It wasn't that bad as the car is only partially assembled. So, 12 bolts later and a few 2 x 4's to block it up for access, I carefully V'ed out the hairline crack with my cutoff wheel, cleaned as best I could with paint thinner, and dried out the block and cracks with a hair dryer for several hours. I made up a mixture of the Original JB Weld and allowed it some time to set up. The quick set JB Weld isn't nearly as durable. After it set up slightly, I smeared it into the crack and kept an eye on it. It did "ooze" out a bit but I smeared it back in. After a few hours, it was mostly hardened, but slightly soft still so I took some 100 grit sand paper and pushed it into JB Weld giving an appearance of cast iron. Not to bad. I let it set for several weeks as I was busy with work and other projects around the house. Today I put water in the system and it is not leaking. I know that the real test will come when I have the car drivable, and is getting hot and cold, but for now, I'm happy with the result. I will probably put in the Bar's Stop Leak when I get it drivable as a preventative measure.