What's left to check?

[Skeezixx]

Two weeks ago I pulled my 29 roadster about 10' out of the garage to change an overhead light. When I started it up again to pull it back in it ran for a few seconds then stalled.....repeatedly.

Suspecting fuel flow problems I checked the screen in the sediment bowl which was clean. I removed the fuel line at the carb and had good flow.

I am running a modern Zenith tractor carb which, till now, never gave me a problem. I removed it and replaced it with a known good original Zenith. The car wouldn't even start. I then disassembled another known to be good spare Zenith 2 and sprayed it's insides with carb cleaner, floral wire, air etc.. I put it on and it didn't start. A friend with a 30 Tudor drove up and allowed me to remove his carb (still hot from running) holding it with a towel. I installed it on my car and it popped and coughed but didn't start. I replaced my Zenith tractor carb and it would run for a few seconds then stop again.

The timing was spot on but that didn't stop me from setting it yet again. The car had new points and condenser about a month ago but being desperate I changed them also using my spares still in sealed Snyder's bags. No difference. I tried three distributor caps. nothing. The plugs, Champion 3Xs, looked very clean.

I resorted to Les Andrews red book where he mentions leaking manifolds causing problems. I inspected the gaskets but saw no obvious evidence of a leak so I put my torque wrench on all the bolts and they were all torqued to 30 lbs.

I'm flummoxed guys. Does anyone have any idea what I should check next?

[Mitch//pa]

do you have a continuos strong blue spark???????

[Skeezixx]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

do you have a continuos strong blue spark???????

Good question. I'm not at the car now but I'll check. At which point? The coil, the points, the plugs?

BTW: About 4 months ago I left the key on and had to replace the coil so it's relatively new.

[Mitch//pa]

start with checking it at the end of the coil wire to a head nut when it is not starting

[Fullraceflathead]

If you left the Key on and fried the coil the points most likely are damaged as well.

[Mitch//pa]

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Originally Posted by Fullraceflathead

If you left the Key on and fried the coil the points most likely are damaged as well.

he states that the coil was replaced after leaving the key on
but not sure if that inlcd points also

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Fullraceflathead

If you left the Key on and fried the coil the points most likely are damaged as well.

X2...as if points were closed , when coil was fried, other damage (points/cond) should be suspect for damage as well

[pooch]

Hook a timing light to coil wire and wind motor over and check for an even flashing of light .

[Patrick L.]

The timing was spot on but that didn't stop me from setting it yet again. The car had new points and condenser about a month ago but being desperate I changed them also using my spares still in sealed Snyder's bags. No difference. I tried three distributor caps. nothing. The plugs, Champion 3Xs, looked very clean.
end quote


Sounds like they were changed.

As said, check for spark. Like Mitch said, hold coil wire 1/4" from good ground and spin the engine. If there is spark, thats not your problem. If there isn't then thats your problem and you need to start at the beginning by looking for 6v from the beginning all the way to the points and a good ground thru them.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I would check for spark first. Also the plugs might look good but might be fouled from the short drive out of the garage. Hold the coil wire 1/4" out of the distributor cap and see if it starts. If it does, let it set there and reach full temp, then slowly push the wire into place and hope the plugs keep firing.

[Fred K-OR]

Gas valve not open enough???

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I would check for spark first. Also the plugs might look good but might be fouled from the short drive out of the garage. Hold the coil wire 1/4" out of the distributor cap and see if it starts. If it does, let it set there and reach full temp, then slowly push the wire into place and hope the plugs keep firing.

To go along with what Tom said, a short piece of vacuum line will work for that. Just an old trick to save use of an extra hand or a zap and resultant banging of the head on the hood.

[Skeezixx]

Points-new
Coil- 5 months old (sparking when grounded near a head bolt)
Condenser -new (two tried)

I have another set of 3Xs I can try but the ones in there are sparking when removed and grounded against the head.

The only modification in the timing link is that I installed a Nu-Rex automatic advance gadget about a year ago. If it malfunctioned and got stuck on full advance or such perhaps that's my problem.

If none of the regular fixes work (so far not) Then I guess as a diagnostic test I'll remove the Nu-Rex gizmo and see if there's a difference this weekend.

Stay tuned (pun intended)

[Skeezixx]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I would check for spark first. Also the plugs might look good but might be fouled from the short drive out of the garage. Hold the coil wire 1/4" out of the distributor cap and see if it starts. If it does, let it set there and reach full temp, then slowly push the wire into place and hope the plugs keep firing.

This is about the only thing I haven't tried but I'll give it a go!

[Skeezixx]

Originally Posted by pooch

Hook a timing light to coil wire and wind motor over and check for an even flashing of light .

I bought a timing light timing kit and read somewhere I needed a 6V timing light. Is this true (for both your suggestion and timing). I have an old 12V one.
(somewhere around here I have a timing light from a 50s BMW motorcycle. I have been waiting to unearth it before using the timing kit).

[Skeezixx]

Originally Posted by Fred K-OR

Gas valve not open enough???

I have remembered to turn on the gas valve often enough during this latest tribulation that it can be excluded as the problem.

[Synchro909]

Tighten the left hand rear axle nut!!!!

[Kahuna]

When you switched carbs, did you take a moment and make sure fuel was flowing when the carb(s) were disconnected?
Just a thought

[Skeezixx]

Originally Posted by Kahuna

When you switched carbs, did you take a moment and make sure fuel was flowing when the carb(s) were disconnected?
Just a thought

Yep because they all flooded

[Mitch//pa]

maybe the mice built a condo in your exhaust and plugged it solid

[Skeezixx]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

maybe the mice built a condo in your exhaust and plugged it solid

I hope they had fire insurance because it backfired a few times.

[Brentwood Bob]

Something wrong with the nurex modification, also loosen the gas cap.
Bob

[LopezCarguy]

I just found a new one, if the shielded cable coming from ignition switch is screwed in to distributor just a hair too much it grounds out..not all the time but intermittently... backed it out and no more problems..

[Skeezixx]

Originally Posted by Brentwood Bob

Something wrong with the nurex modification, also loosen the gas cap.
Bob

OOH now there's something I never thought of!

[Skeezixx]

Originally Posted by LopezCarguy

I just found a new one, if the shielded cable coming from ignition switch is screwed in to distributor just a hair too much it grounds out..not all the time but intermittently... backed it out and no more problems..

The ignition cable hasn't been tightened or loosened since I put the engine together in July of last year but it's a consideration. Can't hurt to try.

[Skeezixx]

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Just thought of something. Isn't the ammeter part of the ignition circuit? If it is failing or the connections have loosened couldn't that be causing the problem?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Skeezixx

Just thought of something. Isn't the ammeter part of the ignition circuit? If it is failing or the connections have loosened couldn't that be causing the problem?

Ive never seen one all of a sudden fail. The connections can become loose and overheat at the meter, which can burn the insulting board inside the gauge. If the connections are clean and tight I wouldn't worry about the ammeter.

Check for good spark, then try the fouled plug trick.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

A MISH-MASH trouble shooting "SEQUENCE"?? like this can lead to more confusion & probably creating more problems, while switching to known "GOOD" parts!!! What happened to COMMON SENSE REASONING.
Sometimes, a simple thing like this leads to 7 pages of posts & NO definite conclusion!!
Bill W.

[Bruskie]

Well said bill

[FRANK PKNY]

IF YOU TIMING WERE STUCK ADVANCED YOU WOULD GET A SERIOUS KICK BACK WHEN CRANKING. Ops sorry about the caps! From changing all these carbs I would kinda lean towards an ignition problem When you hold your palm over the air intake check how well the carb is sucking. That should at least tell you if the manifold is seated to the gaskets well to rule that out. YOU NEED FUEL, Air , timed spark. Some times new parts that are craply built fail rather quickly. Ignition parts especially prone here. Also the wire inside the distributor is problematic on the Model A distributor.

[Skeezixx]

I had opportunity to visit the car briefly earlier today. I found a very intermittent spark from the coil. Going to change the coil and see what happens.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Skeezixx

I had opportunity to visit the car briefly earlier today. I found a very intermittent spark from the coil. Going to change the coil and see what happens.

"MAYBE" the screw in dist cable is just on the verge of shorting the connector??? Try screwing it out, (CCW) an eighth or a quarter of a turn. That happened to me once with Minerva, in the parking lot of the Market. I had to crank it into a parking space to clear the driveway.
Bill W.

[Skeezixx]

Replaced the coil with a new 6V one from O'Reillys and though the wire on the + side is hot I get no spark from the coil.

[Mitch//pa]

with the points in the OPEN position you should have power at both poles on the coil.
you should also have power at the movable point arm with the key ON and points still OPEN.
you can also place a credit card between the comtacts to make the check easier.
ck and report

[Skeezixx]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

with the points in the OPEN position you should have power at both poles on the coil.
you should also have power at the movable point arm with the key ON and points still OPEN.
you can also place a credit card between the comtacts to make the check easier.
ck and report

Thanks Mitch. Will do.

[C26Pinelake]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

A MISH-MASH trouble shooting "SEQUENCE"?? like this can lead to more confusion & probably creating more problems, while switching to known "GOOD" parts!!! What happened to COMMON SENSE REASONING.
Sometimes, a simple thing like this leads to 7 pages of posts & NO definite conclusion!!
Bill W.

What Bill says, makes good sense. There are several recent posts that list systematically the route to follow!
Wayne

[brokenspoke]

Originally Posted by Skeezixx

I bought a timing light timing kit and read somewhere I needed a 6V timing light. Is this true (for both your suggestion and timing). I have an old 12V one.
(somewhere around here I have a timing light from a 50s BMW motorcycle. I have been waiting to unearth it before using the timing kit).

Correct me if I'm wrong.....just get the power for the timing light from a 12 volt battery

[Skeezixx]

Yeah, I have a 12V transformer I could use with the timing light. I was just stalling because I know I have an old BMW 6V one around here someplace (probably right next to the set of ignition wrenches I also can't find). I was just waiting for it to resurface.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Skeezixx

Yeah, I have a 12V transformer I could use with the timing light. I was just stalling because I know I have an old BMW 6V one around here someplace (probably right next to the set of ignition wrenches I also can't find). I was just waiting for it to resurface.

I have a 12 volt timing light that also works on 6 volts. You should give your's a try, and might get lucky.

[Purdy Swoft]

Sounds like the kind of thing that happens when a person changes to the so called modern points, especially when the wireless lower plate is also used. If this is the case put the original breaker plate and points back in and the problem will more than likely be solved. I've actually seen cases where people would rather have problems than change back to the simple, dependable, original setup . Another possibility is a short in the terminal box. I once ran a metal conduit from the generator to the terminal box on my september 29 . The conduit shorted against the left terminan in the terminal box and eventually burned the wires all the way to the ammeter. at first it still ran but backfired a lot. when it burned up the ammeter untill the posts were loose it wouldn't run any more. I replaced the wiring and ammeter, threw away the metal conduit and all has been good since. Good luck.

[marc hildebrant]

Originally Posted by Skeezixx

Yeah, I have a 12V transformer I could use with the timing light. I was just stalling because I know I have an old BMW 6V one around here someplace (probably right next to the set of ignition wrenches I also can't find). I was just waiting for it to resurface.

Transformers only work using AC (Alternating Current). A Battery is DC (Direct Current).

Marc

[Skeezixx]

Well I'm happy to report that my roadster is once again purring like a kitten and it's thanks to a fellow barner who divined the problem and it's unbelievably simple solution!

Originally Posted by Brentwood Bob

loosen the gas cap.
Bob

Thanks Bob.

In November I had a club tour of about 40 miles and it ran flawlessly. Before embarking on the tour though I had filled the tank so high that when my passenger entered the car it tilted and I saw gas flowing down the right side of my cowl. I noticed my gas cap had no gasket in it so, when I got home I ordered a new gasket from Snyders.
I installed it a few days later and forgot about it. The next time I tried to start the car (about 2 weeks later) is when my problem started.

Taking Brentwood Bob's sage advice I removed the gasket and the car started right up and ran merrily as ever.

Had it not been for The Ford Barn I, and several other members in my chapter, would still be replacing the same parts over and over and scratching our heads.

Thanks guys!

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Skeezixx

I had opportunity to visit the car briefly earlier today. I found a very intermittent spark from the coil. Going to change the coil and see what happens.

Originally Posted by Skeezixx

Replaced the coil with a new 6V one from O'Reillys and though the wire on the + side is hot I get no spark from the coil.

glad you got it going...

the info you received was based upon the test results you provided to us. thats the first time for me that a gas cap not venting created a no spark condition

[Brentwood Bob]

There could also be poor ground, or wiring issues.
One annual maintence tip I read is to go thru the connections and make sure the contacts are brite and tight. Especially if you live with humidity thru at least part of the year.
In rochester, minnesota you could cut the air with a knife in the summer.
Glad to hear the outcome, pass it on.
Bob

[Skeezixx]

It wasn't the gas cap causing the no spark Mitch. It was all my panicky gyrations switching parts that exacerbated the situation. As I stated in the original post I suspected a fuel flow problem but after changing out the carburetor four times and making sure the screens were clean I thought I had eliminated the problem as fuel related. From there I managed to create more problems assuming that if not fuel it must be spark. It was also then that I consulted the Oracles on Ford Barn.
It started off simple and I made it worse. I seem to have a great talent for that.

[Skeezixx]

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I'm in New Orleans Bob. We have 100% humidity all year. Checking wire connections here is wise counsel indeed.