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07-27-2014, 08:58 PM | #1 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Republic, MO
Posts: 10
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Clutch Will Not Engage
New to the Ford Barn (old HAMBer struggling with an original Model "A")
So here is the deal. My Dad and I are working on a 1930 Model "A" Pickup. It was in the middle of being restored by an old school Model "A" man who died before he could finish it. We got it started today and after letting it run a bit my Dad couldn't stand it anymore and said I have to take it up the driveway. He pushed the clutch pedal down but it would not go into gear. Just a grinding noise and we did not want to do that. With the engine off, we checked to make sure the pedal was not hitting the floor boards or anything etc. It was not. It was obvious that it needed adjusted. So I made a pretty hefty movement on the arm by screwing it in around 6 turns. We reinstalled the arm and Dad hopped back in. Same result. We pulled the inspection panel off and found the throw out bearing when the clutch pedal was pushed down to the max just barely touched the fingers. When I say barely I mean barely...you might have even been able to stick a thin feeler gauge between them. In other words, at the max pedal, ZERO movement of the clutch fingers. THOUGHTS? |
07-27-2014, 09:15 PM | #2 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,947
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Re: Clutch Will Not Engage
keep adjusting till you get it. there must be a lot of freeplay or maybe the clutch fingers were not checked before he put it together. Keep us informed and good luck.
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07-27-2014, 09:19 PM | #3 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Danville, CA
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Re: Clutch Will Not Engage
Is the lever cracked? This will let the shaft turn a bit and little to no pressure gets to the fingers that push the throwout bearing forward. Crawl under and have someone depress the clutch and make sure that the large rod is not staying in place as the lever revolves around it. If the lever is cracked, no amount of adjusting will make it work. You will have to replace it.
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07-27-2014, 09:20 PM | #4 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Republic, MO
Posts: 10
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Re: Clutch Will Not Engage
There is no more adjustment left for the clutch arm and pedal. Unless I am missing something, there is obviously a finite amount of movement. To me (common sense speaking only) it appears the fingers need to be adjusted so the throwout bearing can not only make contact, but move them. Am I thinking correctly and can that be done from the inspection panel?
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07-27-2014, 09:22 PM | #5 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Danville, CA
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Re: Clutch Will Not Engage
On the Pony Express Tour to Casper we had an A400 that had a crack develop in the actuating arm and he had to be towed into Casper. Luckily one of the members had an original arm to put on and we had him back in business. It happens with that casting.
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07-27-2014, 09:23 PM | #6 |
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Republic, MO
Posts: 10
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Re: Clutch Will Not Engage
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07-27-2014, 09:41 PM | #7 |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New hope Minnesota
Posts: 742
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Re: Clutch Will Not Engage
The pressure plate fingers are probably out of adjustment, I dont remember the spec. but someone on here will know.
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07-27-2014, 09:43 PM | #8 |
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Republic, MO
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Re: Clutch Will Not Engage
Can those adjustments be made from the inspection panel?
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07-27-2014, 09:52 PM | #9 |
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Re: Clutch Will Not Engage
Could the throw out fork be mounted on the shaft backwards. The flat face should face forward. You can check it through the inspection opening but the motor will have to come out to change it, if that is what it is.
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07-27-2014, 09:59 PM | #10 |
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Republic, MO
Posts: 10
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Re: Clutch Will Not Engage
That is a good call, I will take a look. Thanks
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07-27-2014, 10:09 PM | #11 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Republic, MO
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Re: Clutch Will Not Engage
Nope, the fork is correct (flat face forward). I would have been surprised as I am told the guy who was working on this truck was a serious Model "A" guy. Pressure plate is very clean as though it was new when installed. Just thin layer of surface rust on it (very even, thin and consistent) as though new bare metal etc. It would not surprise me to find the clutch is rusted to the flywheel but that doesn't answer why the throw out bearing will not engage the fingers.
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07-27-2014, 10:16 PM | #12 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: santa cruz, calif
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Re: Clutch Will Not Engage
after you check the fork....if its ok, back to the fingers. I have seen one press plate that was so far off adjustment that this was the symptom. If yours is adjusted that far off, when looking at them, they will form an inverted cone pointing at the clutch plate. Properly adjusted, they form an almost flat plane that parallels the top of the pressure plate housing. The distance from that top should be from 5/8ths to 11/16ths inch.
heres probably more than you want to know: http://www.ahooga.com/notebook/howto/1/howto1.shtml |
07-27-2014, 10:51 PM | #13 |
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Republic, MO
Posts: 10
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Re: Clutch Will Not Engage
They are kind of pointed more to the front (or towards the clutch). Most certainly not a flat plane. If they had this "flat plane" I believe the throwout bearing would actually do something. Can I make this adjustment from the inspection panel one at a time? I have a complete 5 speed conversion kit for this truck but I really wanted to play around with it this Summer just the way Henry meant it to be?
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07-27-2014, 11:34 PM | #14 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,892
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Re: Clutch Will Not Engage
If the PO installed a 32 throwout hub you may have a problem. I vaguely remember an old-time mechanic saying something about you'll never get it adjusted because of the size difference if it's a 32. Maybe someone here with a better memory or more experience can confirm or deny that.
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07-28-2014, 04:00 AM | #15 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
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Re: Clutch Will Not Engage
Here is an easy to make clutch adjustment tool. A bolt with a couple nuts through the hole in a short piece of channel. I set the bolt head to 5/8" above the channel, then use a thin feeler gauge to check each of the 6 fingers. These are set correctly at 5/8" plus the .010" feeler. How do your 6 fingers look compared to these?
Also the throw out bearing hub for the Model AA truck is shorter than that for the Model A car and pickup. I found that out years ago when I accidentally grabbed the wrong hub for the 31 AA I was working on. |
07-28-2014, 06:57 AM | #16 |
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Location: Round Rock, Texas
Posts: 37
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Re: Clutch Will Not Engage
Bowman,
I used this tip from PC/SR with excellent results. 1.Get a 6" or so length of bailing wire, about .100 diameter. This will be your "feeler gauge." Crimp and tie about 3' of string securely to one end. The string is so you can retrieve the wire when (not if) you drop it. 2. Looking through the inspection plate, turn the engine by crank so one finger and its locking nut can be seen. Mark this with a magic marker or something so you know when it comes back. There are 6 fingers. 3. Loosen the jam nut, and adjust the screw so the finger comes out to the wire gauge between the throw-out bearing and the finger. The clearance between the finger and the throw-out bearing is the wire width. Do not tighten the jam nut yet. Rotate the engine by hand to the next finger and repeat all the way around. 4. Rotate the engine through 3 revolutions so you make 3 adjustments on each finger. Each adjustment will be smaller and smaller, but the pressure plate will get "cocked" on the first time around so you need to do it 2-3 times, or more if there is too much adjustment remaining after 3 times. Now tighten the jam nuts on the third pass. (Use the marked nut as the index.) 5. Start the engine and see if the clutch is in the right position and works properly. You may have to adjust the trunion nut as well to get 1" of clutch free play. It goes much faster if you have a pal at the front of the engine turning the crank. |
07-28-2014, 12:27 PM | #17 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 8,713
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Re: Clutch Will Not Engage
Any chance you have a multi-disc clutch arm which is longer?
See the picture Purdy posted. Bob |
07-28-2014, 09:04 PM | #18 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Republic, MO
Posts: 10
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Re: Clutch Will Not Engage
Thanks for all the input. The truck is on the road. After quite a bit of looking, measuring, and contemplating I finally put a monkey wrench on the clutch arm and found I could make it engage. We quickly fabricated a new arm that allowed for more adjustment then the original (ding, ding, ding) the pedal works.
However, as feared, the clutch was stuck on the flywheel. We decided to pull it around the block once to see if it would pop loose. It did not. We decided one more trip around before resigning ourselves to the seemingly inevitable task of pulling the transmission. About half way around I slowed to a stop. I could see the fan turning through the radiator. I noticed when I stopped, the fan stopped and then made about a quarter turn backwards. I could feel the old truck pull on the car a bit at the same time (I am assuming the compression pushing it back). I had an idea. I pulled forward a bit and then slowed to a stop. I watched the fan. When it started to go backwards I gunned the taurus. I tried it a second time and POP...the Model "A" was following me again but this time the fan was not turning. We went back to the shop and unhooked the truck. A few seconds later it fired up and made a trip around the block on its own...that was a very pretty sight. |
07-28-2014, 09:16 PM | #19 |
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Re: Clutch Will Not Engage
There is an easy way to break lose a disk from a pressure plate/flywheel; a common problem, for sure.
1. Shift tranny to neutral 2. start engine and warm it up some 3. shutoff engine 4. put shifter into first gear 5. step on clutch and leave it to the floor 6. start engine with rpms low; the car will start to move forward 7. within a few feet the disk will break free and the car will stop since your foot is still on the clutch 8. you still have a brake pedal to help you stop if you get nervous 9. you can still turn the key off to stop the engine if you get nervous 10. I have done this so many times having grown up in a very humid state that I cannot count them. You may have to try it a couple times. But I have never had it fail and have never gone more than 20 feet. See if you can get out into your driveway or a side street to do this. Engine or tranny removal is NOT necessary
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07-30-2014, 10:22 AM | #20 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 53
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Re: Clutch Will Not Engage
tbirdtbird, I hear things are bigger in Texas but here in Washington bailing wire is at a measurement of .58. Is the measurement you gave .100 can be used using something else flexible? The larger measurement sounds better to me. Thanks!
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