Occasionally starved for fuel

[Mitch//pa]

Tom good ignition switch and dist advice

[Steve Wastler]

rubber tip needle valves are prone to this issue. My neighbors ford 600 tractor is having this intermittent fuel starvation problem. With a jewelers loop I found the hole in the seat to be very poorly drilled and was acting as teeth into the rubber tip. With seat out and barely any pressure put on to seat the needle, I could not get it to 'release' with out physically pulling it out. So we put in an old seat that I very lightly 'honed' with a dremel stone to slightly chamfer the 90* hole in the seat, so far so good. If the problem arises again, I'm going to clip the needle to the float, this will for sure cure the issue on the tip sticking to the seat.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Endless possibilities ............. like maybe:

1. While driving ..... slightly adjust spark and very occasionally find that "one" spot where the internal distributor wire shorts out.

2. Cruise to a stop.

3. Retard spark to start and move off of that "one" spot, and take off ...... adjust spark now & then and nothing happens .... then maybe twice a year that "one" spot to short out distributor is found again .......

4. After the insulation wears off of the internal wire, it begins to happen more often.


Common response after all Model A fixes: "Never thought of that."

Happens to everyone .... admire your persistence and courage.

[[email protected]]

I also remember two other wierd issues that caused intermittent engine stopping. On a stock disti the metal tab that is spot welded to the end of the metal tube of the condenser was broken. It looked fine but was not making a reliable electrical connection. The other one was fuse related. Check the actual AG glass fuse to make sure it is intact and making a connection and check the fuse holder itself. Had a guy that had quick connect wire terminals that looked OK but was not conducting.....

[Pat Martone]

Thanks again for all of the advice. Now I've got a great new list of things to checkout thanks to the fordbarn enthusiasts.

[aermotor]

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Consider this: The air temp in the carb venturi will drop 30 - 45 degrees with a constant speed (air flow constant through the carb). With high humidity and constant speed, carb ice is a real possibility. By the time you pull over and ponder things it melts and your on your way. Has it happened during the above conditions? (OAT 32 -70 degrees). I don't know if this is a possibility in a model A or not but it is so common in small aircraft engines that a carb heater is required by the FAA to prevent or correct carb ice. I guess the flames to this post will keep your carb warm enough to prevent it.

Google search - Car/auto carb icing

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Pat,
Are you using the "pencil filter" in the top of your fuel valve? They eliminate the possibility of a LARGE flake "parking" itself on top of the tank outlet.
Bill W.

[LopezCarguy]

I was having same problem, car would die like being shot..no fuel..found it to be needle valve in carb. with Viton tip..they can stick up when car bounces and shut fuel off...changed to metal needle valve and no more sudden stops..

[Benson]

Originally Posted by Tacoma Bob

MMMM sorry if I did not pick it up in the thread but have you done as Mike (#9) suggested. Sounds to me like rust has slowly been building in the inner wall of your gas cap. When the cars dies it will take 10-20 minutes and then it starts. That time span is what it takes for the air to travel back into the tank. As Mike mentioned when it dies the first thing is SLOWLY remove the gas cap and listen for the swoosh. Carefully blow the cap with an air nozzle. Rust particles will fly all over hell. Don't ask me how I know.

Another thing that I seen that clogs vents in gas cap is this wonderful "gasoline". After the gas gets 3 months old or so it forms a Permatex gasket sealer type of goo and as the gas sloshes around in the tank and out the vents and after time goes by the "goo" dries up, gets hard and seals up the vents in the cap.

I have seen many carbs with jets completely closed up with the crap! Stuff is very hard to remove without soaking in lacquer thinner.

Another reason to not leave the gas in tank if you store the car over the winter.

It also helps to remove all of the fuel from the carb and remove the fuel line incase the shut off valve is leaking so fuel does not sit inside the carb all winter.

I drive the cars year round so it is not a big problem for me.

I do not know if it is the Ethanol or some other junk that they put in there that causes it to get all gooey. "Better gasoline through science".

This kind of thing seems to happen whenever "management" gets involved in the making of a product instead of the people that actually know how it works.

[LopezCarguy]

the newer needles for carb have Viton tip, this tip is soft enough to stick in closed position, clean metal needles may leak but will not shut off fuel like these Viton tipped ones will

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Steve Wastler

rubber tip needle valves are prone to this issue. My neighbors ford 600 tractor is having this intermittent fuel starvation problem. With a jewelers loop I found the hole in the seat to be very poorly drilled and was acting as teeth into the rubber tip. With seat out and barely any pressure put on to seat the needle, I could not get it to 'release' with out physically pulling it out. So we put in an old seat that I very lightly 'honed' with a dremel stone to slightly chamfer the 90* hole in the seat, so far so good. If the problem arises again, I'm going to clip the needle to the float, this will for sure cure the issue on the tip sticking to the seat.

Steve,
I'd sorta' forgot about those wire clips that clip on to the little groove in the end of the needle & then over the float arm. Wonder if MOST needles have that groove?? The wire thingy shouldn't be hard to find as they were fairly common in lots of carbs.
"Maybe" try some local carb/tune up shop, bet one of the techs has some in his LITTLE, upper, R/H GOODIE DRAWER!!
Once had intermittent shut offs from a little black BEETLE, sitting on the top of the seat inlet.
Bill W.

[Pat Martone]

Thanks again for the comments.
My carb does not have the viton tip, and the carb is clean.
When the engine dies, I am able to restart it in less than 1-2 minutes.
After I try the carb swap out and the problem remains, I will drain the gas tank to see if there is a metal screen filter on top of (non-indented) gas tank shut off.. Can someone please tell me how to install the gas tank filter on top of the shutoff valve. I also welcome tips on how to drain the gas tank install one.
Thanks.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Remove the fuel line at the carb and let the fuel drain into a gas can. I buy various sizes of clear plastic tubing from Menardsmfor such jobs as this. Then grip the valve with a good correct size wrench and uncrew it from the tank. The filter simply pushes into the tank end of the valve. I've only had to tin one filter for a tighter fit. And, I have installed a couple filters in the valve used on indented firewall cars.

[H. L. Chauvin]

FWIW:

1. If you decide to install an in-tank fuel filter, the last in-tank filter I received from either Bert's, Bratton's, or Snyder's had instructions which specified that if the in-tank filter was loose after installing same in the shut-off valve, to wrap it with Teflon tape until it was no longer a loose fit ...... I used Teflon tape to secure same.

2. Also, if you decide to install an in-tank fuel filter, don't feel like the "Lone Ranger" if the fuel shut-off valve is too loose when it is again re-installed and re-aligned with the in-side gas line; plus, don't feel like Tonto when trying to tighten same where you think the threads may strip if you turn anymore

3. That "stick" Pipe Thread Stick made by "Master Plumber" and others, (about the size of a large crayon), will seal slightly loose threads on any Model A fuel line ...... been using it with success for over 55 years on worn out Model A fuel line fittings and domestic plumbing of all sorts.

4. Even if your fuel tank is presently immaculate, an in-tank filter can never hurt .... one never knows what one may place in the tank after the next visit to the gas pump at the "Yall Come Back Saloon."

[Pat Martone]

Thanks for the tips for tank draining and filter installation.
I don't know if my tank has one, but will investigate.

[FL&WVMIKE]

Originally Posted by Benson

Another thing that I seen that clogs vents in gas cap is this wonderful "gasoline". After the gas gets 3 months old or so it forms a Permatex gasket sealer type of goo and as the gas sloshes around in the tank and out the vents and after time goes by the "goo" dries up, gets hard and seals up the vents in the cap.

I have seen many carbs with jets completely closed up with the crap! Stuff is very hard to remove without soaking in lacquer thinner.

Another reason to not leave the gas in tank if you store the car over the winter.

It also helps to remove all of the fuel from the carb and remove the fuel line incase the shut off valve is leaking so fuel does not sit inside the carb all winter.

I drive the cars year round so it is not a big problem for me.

I do not know if it is the Ethanol or some other junk that they put in there that causes it to get all gooey. "Better gasoline through science".

This kind of thing seems to happen whenever "management" gets involved in the making of a product instead of the people that actually know how it works.

Benson ..............
I don't think the problem is with "management" getting involved. The problem started with the GOVERNMENT getting involved.
MIKE (mikeburch)

[wallster]

I had a lawn tractor that would run great for a while then suddenly just stop running. It would start back up in a few minutes and after cleaning the carburetor twice (after I knew I had spark and checking all the safety switches) I realized that the gas cap vent was plugged and it created a vacuum. This may be way in left field but maybe the tank isn't being allowed to vent. just a thought, good luck.

Wally

[Pat Martone]

I cannot determine if my after market repro gas cap has a blocked vent.
The tiny metal hole on the inside of the cap seems to simply reveal the red colored hard paper gasket underneath it. Is there an easy way to check if the vent is working? Thanks. Does anyone make a quality gas cap or are they all cheap repros?

[Mitch//pa]

the replacement eaton caps are of good quality

[Farrell In Vancouver]

Originally Posted by Pat Martone

I cannot determine if my after market repro gas cap has a blocked vent.
The tiny metal hole on the inside of the cap seems to simply reveal the red colored hard paper gasket underneath it. Is there an easy way to check if the vent is working? Thanks. Does anyone make a quality gas cap or are they all cheap repros?

Try this, with the fuel shut off, disconnect the line from the carb and loosen it at the sediment bulb. Rotate the line up so its higher than the fuel and retighten the line at the bulb. Turn on the fuel and return to the up turned line. With the tank cap in place give the line a hearty blow and see if you can blow air into the tank. You should hear the fuel tank bulbbling and the vent hissing the air out of the tank. If not, try another cap. If it works you can bet the cap in venting well and look else where for the trouble.
Cheers!