Is my fan OK?

[CWilson]

I've read a lot on here lately that some fans can break and injure or at the least do serious damage to the vehicle and engine. Still being "green", could you guys enlighten me?


Thanks, Chris

[Bob C]

This is my original.

Bob

[ModAfan]

A picture IS worth a thousand words.

[pat in Santa Cruz]

the 4 blade fan you have came from Ford as a replacement. It was original on a B engine. While not as easily broken as the original 2 blade A fan, they are old, and they can and do break from metal fatigue. I've been there on a tour when a 4 blade disintegrated on a member's car. Not to mention that with the 4 blade fan, a repair or replacement to the water pump requires removing the radiator. With a 2 blade fan, you can remove the radiator rods and top hose, pull the radiator forward a bit, rotate the 2 blades to horizontal, and remove and replace the pump without removing the radiator.

The reproduction aluminum 2 blade fan has been shown in a Model A Times article to cool better than the 4 blade as well as to be durable and reliable and ( happily) cheaper than the alternatives. I would replace that fan when I had the opportunity if it was on a driver that was driven often.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by pat in Santa Cruz

the 4 blade fan you have came from Ford as a replacement. It was original on a B engine. While not as easily broken as the original 2 blade A fan, they are old, and they can and do break from metal fatigue. I've been there on a tour when a 4 blade disintegrated on a member's car. Not to mention that with the 4 blade fan, a repair or replacement to the water pump requires removing the radiator. With a 2 blade fan, you can remove the radiator rods and top hose, pull the radiator forward a bit, rotate the 2 blades to horizontal, and remove and replace the pump without removing the radiator.

The reproduction aluminum 2 blade fan has been shown in a Model A Times article to cool better than the 4 blade as well as to be durable and reliable and ( happily) cheaper than the alternatives. I would replace that fan when I had the opportunity if it was on a driver that was driven often.

The 1932 Model B used the late '31 Model A style fan. The 4 blade fan was part number 46 8600 and introduced in 1933. The green bible shows the 4 blade fan (46 8600) as being the replacement fan for 1928 through 1934 four cylinder cars and trucks. The 4 blade fans are less likely to have a blade come off but that doesn't give me a real warm feeling. I think the current 2 blade aluminum fan is the way to go. Some of the early ones had problems and that is why I have included the word "current".

Charlie Stephens

[Joe K]

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Owner of a 4 blade fan on my Gordon-Smith Compressor.

The usual mode of failure I've seen for the 4 blade is failure of the rivets.

Has anyone had the blade rendered asunder (as in splitting at the rivet holes?)

It might be possible to improve one's chances if they replaced the rivets with high strength bolts?

Just thinking out loud here.

Joe K

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Joe K

...The usual mode of failure I've seen for the 4 blade is failure of the rivets...

It might be possible to improve one's chances if they replaced the rivets with high strength bolts?

Just thinking out loud here.

Joe K

The rivets did indeed let loose and cost me a new radiator. Almost within weeks, same thing happened to my friend, only he caught it before it took out his radiator.

He took both fans, had the blades inspected for cracks, and there were none. He replaced the rivets with high strength aircraft bolts with self locking nuts. Both fans are still being used with great success.

[Brobrian]

You may, I say may have stumbled on the one things these old pros all agree on. Two-blade is nearly universally preferred for the reasons sited above. Plus, they look better. Sort of "older".

[daveymc29]

When that four blade becomes a three blade you will probably become a believer. I have had experience with both two and four blade fans in the last couple of years. One cost me a radiator core, the other cost a friend a hood section and hood repaint, plus some straightening of the cooling fins on the radiator and soldering a couple of tubes. For me, not worth the gamble. Aluminum or plastic on mine. JMHO FWIW

[CWilson]

Originally Posted by daveymc29

When that four blade becomes a three blade you will probably become a believer. I have had experience with both two and four blade fans in the last couple of years. One cost me a radiator core, the other cost a friend a hood section and hood repaint, plus some straightening of the cooling fins on the radiator and soldering a couple of tubes. For me, not worth the gamble. Aluminum or plastic on mine. JMHO FWIW

I am a believer, that's why I asked. I will definitely be removing the 4 blade and installing a 2 blade aluminum based on the recommendations by everyone. Thanks again for the help!

As a side note, everyone always says "don't throw anything away". Is this one of those things I can throw away? If it's not safe, I don't see any point in keeping it.

Chris

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by CWilson

I am a believer, that's why I asked. I will definitely be removing the 4 blade and installing a 2 blade aluminum based on the recommendations by everyone. Thanks again for the help!

As a side note, everyone always says "don't throw anything away". Is this one of those things I can throw away? If it's not safe, I don't see any point in keeping it.

Chris

It will make an excellent wall hanging

[31 Model A]

I have a two blade aluminum fan to be installed end of March. My four blade fan is cracked. I drive with all fingers crossed and constant Hail Mary's coming from my mouth and I'm not even Catholic. Let's say, the fear of the Four Blade Cracked Fan God was put in me here at the Ford Barn.

[beechboy]

Removed my 4 blade last week and replaced with the new style 2 blade fan. I could see some rust streaks coming from the fan rivets,( not sure if that means anything). I was going to rebuild my pump anyway so now I have one less thing to worry about. Replace the pump studs with the new style bolts that look like studs and new belt too. They did a nice job of making that 2 bladed fan too.

[Joe K]

Probably worth keeping as example of what didn't work.

"Those who are unaware of the past are doomed by fate to repeat their mistakes."

Paraphrase George Santayana.

Joe K

[Tom Wesenberg]

You can use the old fan to make a whirligig.

I sure wouldn't be driving with a known cracked fan.

[31 Model A]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I sure wouldn't be driving with a known cracked fan.

I have a 50+ mile trip to make end of March to Larry's house. It will not be a worry free trip.

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by 31 Model A

I have a 50+ mile trip to make end of March to Larry's house. It will not be a worry free trip.

Were it a matter of necessity to make the trip NOW, I would say remove the fan blades and go above 20 mph. You'll be fine.

Given you have time, just go pop the money and buy a decent two or six blade fan. It's cheap insurance on both making the trip without incident - and for possible damage incurred along the way. (Could be up to a grand depending on radiator/hood damage.)

Besides - we'd hate to lose an example of what doesn't work to a bigger example of why it didn't.

Joe K

[31 Model A]

Originally Posted by Joe K

Were it a matter of necessity to make the trip NOW, I would say remove the fan blades and go above 20 mph. You'll be fine.

Given you have time, just go pop the money and buy a decent two or six blade fan. It's cheap insurance on both making the trip without incident - and for possible damage incurred along the way. (Could be up to a grand depending on radiator/hood damage.)

Besides - we'd hate to lose an example of what doesn't work to a bigger example of why it didn't.

Joe K

I have already purchased a replacement two blade fan. The reason why I don't change it out is, I don't have the facility nor the tools to do it, nor the experience. If I did, I would have already done it. I'm thinking seriously of having it transported to Larry's house and not having the worry.

[Joe K]

Do you have a trade school nearby with young mechanics in training who would take great delight in being involved?

Or even bring the new fan and drive the car to a modern Ford garage? They might charge you $90 an hour for the work - but they might also do it for free just for the photo-op.

Gosh, I would like to see/try that myself.

Fred Baldelli of the Chevy garage in Westboro, MA was a mentor of sorts to me. He drove daily a 1936 Ford pickup to his work - but having started as a mechanic and worked his way up to shop manager everyone knew WHY Fred insisted on driving that old Ford. And not one of them was without envy of Fred, both for his talent with tools AND for his antique truck.

And surprisingly, people like Fred are still around - still in the auto trades - and are worth knowing when and where you can find them.

I wish I was closer - I would fix you up in about 30 minutes.

Good luck. Don't drive a broken fan.

Joe K

[31 Model A]

Originally Posted by Joe K

I wish I was closer - I would fix you up in about 30 minutes.



Joe K

Thanks....wish you were closer too. No trade school around here, just a lot of moonshine stills.

[Mitch//pa]

Joe k are you snowed in?

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

Joe k are you snowed in?

PM sent.

Joe K

[31 Model A]

I've decided to flatbed Sarah to Larry's. Of course, she'll come back and demand a closed in transport.......women!!!!!!

[CWilson]

Originally Posted by 31 Model A

I have already purchased a replacement two blade fan. The reason why I don't change it out is, I don't have the facility nor the tools to do it, nor the experience. If I did, I would have already done it. I'm thinking seriously of having it transported to Larry's house and not having the worry.

I would think you could pay someone to do a house call cheaper than having it towed. Then you could drive it there. There has got to be someone close enough willing to drive to your location and replace the fan for a fee...

Chris

[31 Model A]

Originally Posted by CWilson

I would think you could pay someone to do a house call cheaper than having it towed. Then you could drive it there. There has got to be someone close enough willing to drive to your location and replace the fan for a fee...

Chris

My problem and my worry has disappeared. Larry said he'd come pick her up. He transports As everywhere.................. I'm once again a happy camper!!!!

[CWilson]

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Doesn't get better than that!

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Joe K

PM sent.

Joe K

PM sent.

[jr-41ford]

That 4-blade fan looks just like the one I removed from my 28 Tudor and mounted on the wall of my shop when I replaced it with a 2-blade aluminum fan.

[Big hammer]

Is a late 31 two blade fan better than early two blade fans? Pictures would help

[Bob Bidonde]

Those that say an original fan can be restored are playing Russian Roulette because there is no way to determine / measure the fatigue life remaining of any fan.

Those that say they can lower the stress levels in an original fan to make it serviceable are taking a very foolish gamble.

For the cost of a safe new fan ($60 to $80) why would anyone risk a $600 radiator, a $200 hood panel, the cost of a flatbed ride home and possibly hospital bills?

For goodness sake, buy a new fan!

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by Big hammer

Is a late 31 two blade fan better than early two blade fans? Pictures would help

You mean an 80 year old "improved" fan compared to a fan that Ford found need improvement?

Yes - but I think the consensus is you still have an 80 year old fan with 80 years of stress and wear and tear.

The improved design reduced (not did away with) the tendency of the fan blades to present a "pocket" for water and potential corrosion. Sorry no pix.

If I felt determined to keep it "all ford" (note not original since 90 percent of Model A Ford had not the availability of the improved fan when they came off the assembly line) - this is the one I would go with.

If I owned a late 31 that came with the improved fan originally, I would likely try to keep it going. (I don't so I don't)

Joe K

[Dick Deegan]

CWilson; Check out this link for the answer to your question. Pictures are about halfway down the thread.

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ht=dick+Deegan

Dick

[Big hammer]

Thanks Joe K I will be changing my I think late 31 fan :-)

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Big hammer

Thanks Joe K I will be changing my I think late 31 fan :-)

Keep the fan in case you ever want to use it in high point judging. Note that this fan was also used on the '32 four cylinder cars so there might be a market with people doing high point restorations.

Charlie Stephens

[Skeezixx]

After much deliberation I finally decided to go with the plastic "Toyota"fan as I call it.

It's exceptionally ugly and looks incongruous with the rest of the car but it's extremely efficient and less lethal in the unlikely event of a catastrophic failure.

[Ron in Quincy]

I used original fans for many years but never again on a driving "A". I had a original on my 30 Deluxe Coupe, it had been magnifluxed , a blade broke when traveling at 50 MPH, took out the radiator and right top side of the hood. I replaced it with a new aluminum two blade fan. Attached is a picture of the broken fan, even though magnifluxed it does not show the condition of fan on the hollow inside.

Ron

[Bulligen]

Just had one let loose on a 1951 Dodge Weapons carrier. It took out the radiator, the fan shroud and put a nice slice in the hood. it is a low mileage vehicle always taken care of. It was a four blade fan with no sign of failure. ???? Luckily no one was looking at or working on the engine while it was running!
It happened once before to myself and a friend about 30 years ago driving on the expressway from Milwaukee to Chicago in his 52 Ford pickup. All of a sudden we heard a loud bang, We pulled over of course and looked things over but didnt notice the fan. We started again slowly but had a violent vibration as we sped up. Pulled over again and spied it. Easy fix, we bent off the opposite side of the 4 blade and made it back with no further problem. He threw another fan on the next day !

[CWilson]

Thanks everyone for IDing my fan as an original replacement. One more bit of knowledge gained! I've read in the archives that you should overhaul the water pump while you have the fan and rad out. I'll search the forum on that and probably need help establishing what kind of pump I have, but I'll start another thread for that one. Thanks!

Chris

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

Originally Posted by 31 Model A

Thanks....wish you were closer too. No trade school around here, just a lot of moonshine stills.

That explains a lot

[MrBruce]

I've not seen a four blade B fan come apart in 30 years of watching. Anything can happen, mine has been running since I took my original two blade off because of the chance it will go air bourne on me. Looks nice on my shelf, but will continue to run the four blade as long as it is tight and the rivets aren't a problem.

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by MrBruce

I've not seen a four blade B fan come apart in 30 years of watching. Anything can happen, mine has been running since I took my original two blade off because of the chance it will go air bourne on me. Looks nice on my shelf, but will continue to run the four blade as long as it is tight and the rivets aren't a problem.

Well, like you I think I will continue to run the 4 blade fan on my Gordon-Smith Compressor - but I think I will replace the rivets with a more substantial allen head (grade 8) bolt.

Joe K

[Purdy Swoft]

The rivets were never the problem for me . The narrow area between the rivets fatigued , cracked and the blade flew off. I had two of the four blade fans sling a blade.
The four blade fans were not original to the model B . The four blade model 46 fans were first used on the 1933 four cylinder trucks. The model 46 four blade truck fans were then sold as replacement fans for model A & B cars and trucks by Ford dealers after the dangerous two blade prop fans were discontinued, probably through the 50s The old Ford four blade fans are mostly fatigued and just as dangerous if not more dangerous than the original two blade prop fans . I wouldn't run either one. I've already had two close calls with the four blade fans. I'm not going to wait for three to be a charm.

It is not necessary to remove the radiator to remove a four blade fan . It is easy enough to bend the blades back and forth a few times and you will be surprised how easily the blades break off. After the blades are broken off the water pump can be easily removed. With the pump removed, the hub of the old fan can be easily removed if a person knows what they are doing .

[larrys40]

I concur... good advice Purdy! I have cut some of them off to keep from pulling the radiator and was always glad I did it. I agree if you look at some of the fans at the swap meets they are mostly all fatigued in one area or another.
Larry

[5window]

Originally Posted by MrBruce

I've not seen a four blade B fan come apart in 30 years of watching. Anything can happen, mine has been running since I took my original two blade off because of the chance it will go air bourne on me. Looks nice on my shelf, but will continue to run the four blade as long as it is tight and the rivets aren't a problem.

I think your statistics are misleading. One person could watch more fans in a year than another could watch in 30 years. But, it's your car and your wallet. Still, there are lots of threads like this here and on other A sites, so if you're into playing Russian Roulette, just fill up the cylinder. Pretty much, it's not a question of if, it's a question of when.

Just curious, what would your legal liability be if you sold an A to someone knowing the fan could blow at any time but didn't tell them? Or, maybe this is a morality issue.

[slackcat]

I changed to an aluminum 2 blade fan when I couldn't figure out why my engine, with 4 blade, would seem to vibrate more at higher rpm. Problem solved.

Upon inspecting the 4 blade fan I found two blades tweaked. Something I didn't notice when I bought the car. Don't know if that was the cause but runs smoother now.