28 sedan carb help?

[Baileigh Inc]

Hello gang!

After putting 250 miles on the 28 over the past couple of days I am in complete love with the car. Drove it home last night and parked it in the garage. This morning it started then slowly died and would not fire back up.

I am getting gas to the carb, the filter is brand new, so I removed the bottom of the carb and blew everything out. No dirt, totally clean. I had an old timer with me that knew what he was doing sorta so he did most of it.

The bowl was dry as a bone so he monkeyed around with the float and walla!!...it started pissing gas all over. I t was beautiful!

Put everything back together and she fired right up......for about 30 seconds until all the gas in the bowl was used up.

Not sure where to start as I am not a carb guy.

Anyone want to lend a hand?

[henry's 31]

Hi:

I would disconnect the line from the gas tank (sediment bowl) to the carburetor and make sure you have a good flow of gas. If the flow is ok, check to make sure the valve above the float is not stuck.

Henry's 31

[Joe K]

Sounding like the "alcohol in the gas" syndrome and you have a float valve needle which includes a Buna-N tip (which is a good setup EXCEPT for the alcohol in the gasoline now which softens and makes the Buna-N "sticky".)

I have a John Deere 110 tractor that was my Dad's back in the 1970s. It has a 10hp Kohler engine and it's like the Model A in that it's gut level mechanical simple.

And it has a Buna-N tipped needle in the carburetor.

I give the carburetor a good rap with a hammer handle at the beginning of each operating season - mostly it doesn't happen to hang up the rest of the year. But I know what to do if it does.

You don't say your carburetor make but likely you can buy a modern viton tipped float needle for use with that carb and new gas.

Hope this helps,
Joe K

[Baileigh Inc]

Originally Posted by Joe K

Sounding like the "alcohol in the gas" syndrome and you have a float valve needle which includes a Buna-N tip (which is a good setup EXCEPT for the alcohol in the gasoline now which softens and makes the Buna-N "sticky".)

I have a John Deere 110 tractor that was my Dad's back in the 1970s. It has a 10hp Kohler engine and it's like the Model A in that it's gut level mechanical simple.

And it has a Buna-N tipped needle in the carburetor.

I give the carburetor a good rap with a hammer handle at the beginning of each operating season - mostly it doesn't happen to hang up the rest of the year. But I know what to do if it does.

You don't say your carburetor make but likely you can buy a modern viton tipped float needle for use with that carb and new gas.

Hope this helps,
Joe K

Here is mine

[Baileigh Inc]

I have had the bottom of the carb off 3 times today and when I push the float up with my finger at rains gas, then when I put it all back together ot runs for 30 seconds and dies.

[stainless steve]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

If thats the case how hard do you have to push could be sticking or does your float ....float... or can you here swooshing inside ...it might be sinking those are the only two things that can be going on

[jthomas6]

Originally Posted by Baileigh Inc

I have had the bottom of the carb off 3 times today and when I push the float up with my finger at rains gas, then when I put it all back together ot runs for 30 seconds and dies.

Possible hole in the float, letting gas in, and weighing down the float??

[Mitch//pa]

if the float was heavy // filled with fuel the carb would be doing the opposite and flood.
your float valve could be sticking
other things to ck
the fuel line could be pushed to far past the ferrules on either end
restricted inlet screen on the carb
float could be hanging up on the float rod

you say that when you push up on the float it rains gas that should shut off the fuel when pushing upwards

[Baileigh Inc]

Update....

Took the entire carb apart, cleaned it all, blew it out and we are on the road again!

My first time doing this...kinda neat.

Thanks for all the help!

[Baileigh Inc]

Geez, same thing this morning.

I am just going to order a rebuild kit from Mikes.

[Joe K]

Try tapping it with a hammer handle?

Works for the John Deere.

You can check your float for leaks. Boil a cup of water and then carefully (don't burn yourself) plunge the float into the boiling water. A leak will show as a line of air bubbles trailing to the surface.

Joe K

[Baileigh Inc]

Originally Posted by Joe K

Try tapping it with a hammer handle?

Works for the John Deere.

You can check your float for leaks. Boil a cup of water and then carefully (don't burn yourself) plunge the float into the boiling water. A leak will show as a line of air bubbles trailing to the surface.

Joe K

I am a little confused, what will that hammer do. I think maybe its that valve above the float that might be sticking.

[Mitch//pa]

put in the viton valve...
make sure you ck your float level after

[Baileigh Inc]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

put in the viton valve...

what is that? I ordered this one this morning. Should I cancel my order?

http://www.mikes-afordable.com/product/A9595Z.html

[Joe K]

On the John Deere, the vibration of the hammer impact is enough to "shake" the buna-n tipped float needle loose and allow gas to pass. Well, at least until the next time the tractor "sits" and the gummy rubber tipped needle has a chance to re-adhere to it's seat.

The viton tipped needle is the permanent solution. They didn't used to have one for the John Deere.

Joe K

[Mitch//pa]

this is the viton valve all suppliers carry them

[Mitch//pa]

this is to ck the float level which is set by adding or subtracting float valve gaskets.... i find that usually 2 gaskets is right on

renners has a much better quality one then all the suppliers
http://rennerscorner.com/carburetor.html

[Mitch//pa]

dont use the jets from the suppliers they are not calibrated properly
call renners and buy a set of calibrated jets, viton valve and float tool..
you may have to ask for the valve on the phone not sure if they show it on there site..
cancel your mikes order
here is what you want

[Baileigh Inc]

Thanks!

[Tom Wesenberg]

For those who have trouble with the float valve sticking closed, you might try shutting off the fuel valve and let the carb run dry, then turn off the key.

This will leave the float valve in the open position.

[christian]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

dont use the jets from the suppliers they are not calibrated properly
call renners and buy a set of calibrated jets, viton valve and float tool..
you may have to ask for the valve on the phone not sure if they show it on there site..
cancel your mikes order
here is what you want

I second this, i used multiple rebuild kits from the major suppliers and the carb never worked well. I sprung for a set of renners flow tested jets and bingo, perfect operation.

Those jets from the major suppliers are all over the map.

[Baileigh Inc]

Originally Posted by christian

I second this, i used multiple rebuild kits from the major suppliers and the carb never worked well. I sprung for a set of renners flow tested jets and bingo, perfect operation.

Those jets from the major suppliers are all over the map.

Like these?

What ones do I need?

http://www.rennerscorner.com/carburetor.html

[Mitch//pa]

yes like the picture i showed in post #18

[christian]

another bonus is renner's jets come with a chart showing the actual flow test on the the jets you recieve and the ford spec.

[Baileigh Inc]

WOW, this forum kicks ass....thank you all. I have renners sending me an entire rebuild kit.

I will report back!

[Baileigh Inc]

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Rebuilding a 1928 Zenith carburetor with my best friend. This car will produce the best memories this summer.

\

[Baileigh Inc]

Wow!

I have to say the rebuild kit from Renner's with the calibrated jets has made a huge difference. My car runs like a champ and seems much more happy than it did before.

I never knew how bad it ran with the old carb set up until now. The car is rather new to me and I thought that's just how Model A's ran......

60 MPH up the lakeshore with my son after work today.

I highly recommend Renner's calibrated jets for anyone looking for a happier banger.

Thank you all!

[christian]

kids can be very helpful, mine's a bit young, but he's eager.

[Boston Bruce]

Originally Posted by Baileigh Inc

Hello gang!
I am getting gas to the carb, the filter is brand new,

What "filter"?

Get rid of all of the fuel and air filters and try it.

[mrtexas]

Originally Posted by Boston Bruce

What "filter"?

Get rid of all of the fuel and air filters and try it.

You are likely to run rich with an air filter. You can get a modified Zenith to use an air filter if you like. Get rid of any fuel filter other than the screen inside the gas tank that fits in the fuel cutoff valve line. It will keep rust out of your carb. BTW there is also a screen in a Zenith carb on the inlet. You might want to check or replace it as well.

http://mrtexascitrus.weebly.com/modelacarb.html

I horded up a lot of Tillys and Zeniths before I retired as a retirement project. I started on the Tillys and never got to the Zeniths. I rebuilt around 40 Tillys. A Tilly is a much simpler carb to overhaul. When we moved 110 miles last August to near Sugarland,TX I sold the approximate 50 Zeniths I had saved up! I still have 25 or 30 Tillys.

https://sites.google.com/site/mrtexa...ly-carburetors

A Zenith is definitely a good carb if you get flow tested jets. I have posted an explanation as to how a Zenith works on my website:

https://sites.google.com/site/mrtexa...ome/modelacarb

I never did find a simple enough explanation about how a Zenith works so I made my own. I have all the available booklets on both Zenith and Tilly carbs. No flow testing required for a Tilly.

[Baileigh Inc]

So I should take off my air cleaner?

[mshmodela]

Originally Posted by Baileigh Inc

Hello gang!

After putting 250 miles on the 28 over the past couple of days I am in complete love with the car. Drove it home last night and parked it in the garage. This morning it started then slowly died and would not fire back up.

I am getting gas to the carb, the filter is brand new, so I removed the bottom of the carb and blew everything out. No dirt, totally clean. I had an old timer with me that knew what he was doing sorta so he did most of it.

The bowl was dry as a bone so he monkeyed around with the float and walla!!...it started pissing gas all over. I t was beautiful!

Put everything back together and she fired right up......for about 30 seconds until all the gas in the bowl was used up.

Not sure where to start as I am not a carb guy.

Anyone want to lend a hand?

As a new Model A owner, I found this the very helpful in terms of the Carburetor:

http://modelabasics.com/carb%20basics%202.htm

This is a thing of beauty as well for Ignitions:

http://modelabasics.com/Ignition.htm

Your mileage many vary...

-Mike
Cleveland, Ohio

[Baileigh Inc]

Man.....I cannot grasp this carb. After putting in the Renner's calibrated jets the car ran incredibly better for several days....until it got a little colder outside.

Not sure if the cold weather has anything to do with it but spitting and sputtering, popping and snapping.......won't stay running at stop lights. I took off the air cleaner and it seems to breath a littler better but she still has something going on. It doesn't even rev up the same as it did.

Are the calibrated jets only for warm weather or am I chasing a rabbit with this cold weather?

[Purdy Swoft]

It sounds like you need to open up the GAV a bit until it warms up. Sputtering and popping when cold usually indicates running lean. I open the GAV about one turn counter clockwise when cold. when it starts to lope, close the GAV to about 1/4 turn off the seat or where ever it runs best. Mine will hesitate and not want to take the gas unless I richen the GAV until it warms a bit. Ignition is probably weak as well. Check the points. When points gap begins to close up it retards the timing and throttle response becoms slow and labored. The locking screw on the points block may not have been tightened properly, the last time the points were adjusted. This has happened to many of us at one time or another. points gap should be anywhere from .018 to .022 , I usually go for the wider gap. Wider points gap gives more time before the gap has to be adjusted again, it also slightly advances the timing for more crisp throttle response. If the engine stalls when the brakes are applied after warm up, the float level is probably a bit low. Running a stand up filter in the cut off valve under the gas tank is usually a must. Fuel flow restriction will also cause backfiring and shut off. Several things can cause the same symptoms

[Baileigh Inc]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

It sounds like you need to open up the GAV a bit until it warms up. Sputtering and popping when cold usually indicates running lean. I open the GAV about one turn counter clockwise when cold. when it starts to lope, close the GAV to about 1/4 turn off the seat or where ever it runs best. Mine will hesitate and not want to take the gas unless I richen the GAV until it warms a bit. Ignition is probably weak as well. Check the points. When points gap begins to close up it retards the timing and throttle response becoms slow and labored. The locking screw on the points block may not have been tightened properly, the last time the points were adjusted. This has happened to many of us at one time or another. points gap should be anywhere from .018 to .022 , I usually go for the wider gap. Wider points gap gives more time before the gap has to be adjusted again, it also slightly advances the timing for more crisp throttle response. If the engine stalls when the brakes are applied after warm up, the float level is probably a bit low. Running a stand up filter in the cut off valve under the gas tank is usually a must. Fuel flow restriction will also cause backfiring and shut off. Several things can cause the same symptoms

Thanks Purdy, but my car has electronic ignition that was installed when it was rebuilt a couple years ago.

[Purdy Swoft]

Well that will probably rule out ignition. I only added the thought because many times carburetor problems turn out to be ignition or partly ignition. Good luck.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Minerva was fartin' out erratically, once. With carb bowl off, NO flow from float valve. Turned off gas, removed float, laid down a white rag, GENTLY removed the float valve. A little BLACK beetle was sittin' on top of it!! Don't know how he got in through the stainless mesh carb filter???---Bill W.

[Baileigh Inc]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

Well that will probably rule out ignition. I only added the thought because many times carburetor problems turn out to be ignition or partly ignition. Good luck.

Thanks, I will report back what I find.......I hope.

[Baileigh Inc]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Minerva was fartin' out erratically, once. With carb bowl off, NO flow from float valve. Turned off gas, removed float, laid down a white rag, GENTLY removed the float valve. A little BLACK beetle was sittin' on top of it!! Don't know how he got in through the stainless mesh carb filter???---Bill W.

Holy cow!

[Baileigh Inc]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

It sounds like you need to open up the GAV a bit until it warms up. Sputtering and popping when cold usually indicates running lean. I open the GAV about one turn counter clockwise when cold. when it starts to lope, close the GAV to about 1/4 turn off the seat or where ever it runs best. Mine will hesitate and not want to take the gas unless I richen the GAV until it warms a bit. Ignition is probably weak as well. Check the points. When points gap begins to close up it retards the timing and throttle response becoms slow and labored. The locking screw on the points block may not have been tightened properly, the last time the points were adjusted. This has happened to many of us at one time or another. points gap should be anywhere from .018 to .022 , I usually go for the wider gap. Wider points gap gives more time before the gap has to be adjusted again, it also slightly advances the timing for more crisp throttle response. If the engine stalls when the brakes are applied after warm up, the float level is probably a bit low. Running a stand up filter in the cut off valve under the gas tank is usually a must. Fuel flow restriction will also cause backfiring and shut off. Several things can cause the same symptoms

Your quote:

It sounds like you need to open up the GAV a bit until it warms up. Sputtering and popping when cold usually indicates running lean. I open the GAV about one turn counter clockwise when cold. when it starts to lope, close the GAV to about 1/4 turn off the seat or where ever it runs best. Mine will hesitate and not want to take the gas unless I richen the GAV until it warms a bit.


Thanks Purdy, this has helped out quite a bit. Yesterday I put a few miles on it and this was the problem. I never had to mess with the GAV before, I just always left it almost closed. After opening it up a full turn, my car smiled.

This is all a learning process for me and I thank all of you for your help.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Baileigh Inc

Your quote:

It sounds like you need to open up the GAV a bit until it warms up. Sputtering and popping when cold usually indicates running lean. I open the GAV about one turn counter clockwise when cold. when it starts to lope, close the GAV to about 1/4 turn off the seat or where ever it runs best. Mine will hesitate and not want to take the gas unless I richen the GAV until it warms a bit.


Thanks Purdy, this has helped out quite a bit. Yesterday I put a few miles on it and this was the problem. I never had to mess with the GAV before, I just always left it almost closed. After opening it up a full turn, my car smiled.

This is all a learning process for me and I thank all of you for your help.

with the proper jets installed and the carb operating the way its designed the gav will make a difference. open it on a cold engine or weather conditions and once warmed about 1/4 open will usually be good...
i rebuilt a couple carbs with the junk jets the suppliers all sell and the gav didn't do squat because they were all running to rich.. i dont have the time to screw with flowing my own jets so i find the renners kits are an excellent value.

[Baileigh Inc]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

with the proper jets installed and the carb operating the way its designed the gav will make a difference. open it on a cold engine or weather conditions and once warmed about 1/4 open will usually be good...
i rebuilt a couple carbs with the junk jets the suppliers all sell and the gav didn't do squat because they were all running to rich.. i dont have the time to screw with flowing my own jets so i find the renners kits are an excellent value.

Thanks! I have ordered a fuel level gauge from Mike to make sure I'm 5/8 down as well.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Baileigh Inc

Thanks! I have ordered a fuel level gauge from Mike to make sure I'm 5/8 down as well.

the renners gauges are much better than the ones all the suppliers sell
ck it out night and day quality difference

[Baileigh Inc]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

the renners gauges are much better than the ones all the suppliers sell
ck it out night and day quality difference

The one I ordered is just a tube and a fitting.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Baileigh Inc

The one I ordered is just a tube and a fitting.

yes i know what you got there junk
here is the renners