Zenith Rebuild Problem

[tbirdtbird]

I deal with Bratton's and Snyder's the most and I second and triple second what Tom just said. Walt at Bratton's is ALWAYS available, he makes it point to be available and he is gonna wanna know something is up. It is not clear to what degree his deputies report back to him about problems. Prolly they do but I would call Walt anyway. Just dial the 800 number and ask for Walt. You may have to wait a little bit I am sure he can never put the phone down
When I was ready for my first show with my Deluxe Touring he was back ordered on trunks. I was very disappointed. He offered to send me HIS trunk as a stop gap. Find a better guy than that.

Same for Don at Snyder's

[JOES31]

Mitch
I saw those names and for some reason I think I got Bert's and Bratton's mixed up. I will still purchase from Bratton's when the need arises. I am sure they are a good supplier. What I won't purchase from anyone is a rebuilt carburetor of any kind. I will buy a new one and be done or do a rebuild myself. The ones I did worked pretty good.

Joe

[Mitch//pa]

Joe,
brattons is first class but as mentioned they are at the mercy of their carb builder. . i buy from them all the time along with a couple others.
one thing thats great about this site is you know where to go for the best stuff...
to bad you got the name confused.....

[Mitch//pa]

i rebuild my own carbs also with good success using renners flow tested jets

[JOES31]

Mitch,
Interesting you would mention the flow tested jets. I changed out the jets that came in the Snyder's kit to the flow tested Renner's jets and the Snyder's jets actually worked a lot better. I was surprised. The Renner's jets were actually larger so maybe they flowed too much fuel.

I think the main problem is that we are dealing with a part that is over 80 years old and rebuilt who knows how many times over. I met another model a owner the other day. He has two, a coupe and a speedster. He has a running engine set up in his garage to test parts. He said he has rebuilt several carbs exactly the same way with the same exact parts. Some run beautifully and some don't run worth a damn.

I feel that if you're going to sell these rebuilt Zeniths they should be tested by the rebuilder on a running engine before they go out to the customer. I think others posted that Renner's and Bert's test them.

[Purdy Swoft]

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The flow rate is probably different for ethanol gas than real gas or even the gas that was used over eighty years ago I am lucky enough to be able to get ethanol free gas. I rebuild my own carbs and use used oiriginal numbered jets . I have never flow tested a jet and mine run good .

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

The flow rate is probably different for ethanol gas than real gas or even the gas that was used over eighty years ago I am lucky enough to be able to get ethanol free gas. I rebuild my own carbs and use used oiriginal numbered jets . I have never flow tested a jet and mine run good .

Knock on wood, the same for me.

I did one of my carbs about 15 years ago that I want to redo, and may have to remove the brass plugs to get it cleaned out better.

[Rex_A_Lott]

We are really lucky that our old cars run " pretty good" on whatever we dump in the tank.
I have some friends that are into racing and they are fighting the inconsistencies with the various "pump " gases.
One of them ran a go-cart track where they had to run "pump gas". Racers , being racers , naturally tried to cheat this rule...and to try to keep it all fair he resorted to checking specific gravity...which is not a perfect check, but is fairly cheap and would catch the blatant cheaters. What he found was that the stuff they were buying at various stations was not consistent, even without being cheated up. What he ended up doing was going to two stations, on race day, and getting his own samples and this was the standard for that night. He let the guys know where he was getting it, how it was checked.
Another couple of friends, trying to cut their costs, bought E-85 carburetors, and tried that fuel instead of the $8 /gal racing gas. They had problems with the gas station fuel being all over the place, and had to start buying E-85 by the barrel from the racing fuel suppliers to get some consistency...which sort of defeated the whole purpose of their endeavor.
OK. Sorry to be long-winded. None of that has anything to do with leaks and bad floats, but I'm just not sure how much a flow tested jet in New Jersey in the winter is going to help you in California in the summer.
To quote my Asian co-worker.." Good Luck to You".

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Joe,

FWIW:

Anytime there is any type of "serious" problem like this, (& especially "(3)" times in a row), with "any" parts, bought from either "Steve @ Bert's", or "Walt @ Bratton's", they definitely want to be the very first to know, even the first time it happens.

Highly intelligent business owners/managers such as these two are fully aware of what made their businesses successful.

Businesses operated by dumb Yo-Yo's not attending to customers who are not content can fold up in a heartbeat whether it be a restaurant, a bank, a Ford Dealership, or whatever -- words of complainers travel so very rapidly.

Just hope it works for you.

[Marshall V. Daut]

To follow-up on H.L.'s comments, I worked for Intel for 17 years and I think you'd agree they are/were a very successful company, and good to its employees, by the way. The company was VERY conscious of its image and reputation among its customers. In our local company newsletter, the Marketing Department published a list of why businesses fail so that we'd know what to avoid. Restaurants were specifically examined. I don't have that list any longer, but I was not particularly surprised by what the #1 killer of restaurant businesses was. I'll save that for last.
Although I don't recall the exact percentages, the following numbers are pretty close to why restaurants fail, and it's NOT because the food was bad. By the time a restaurant actually opens its doors for customers, the food is probably good, or at least acceptable. Even though the following describes restaurant failures, the same reasons (except the food, but substitute "quality" for that), could apply to almost any business:
2% bad food
1% customers die
3% customers moved away
1% location
67% perceived poor attitude/poor service by EMPLOYEES
Yup - a bad employee will kill your restaurant business quicker than burned scrambled eggs! One disgruntled customer tells a friend, who tells two friends, who tell four friends, etc., until no one goes to that restaurant any more. I have personally taken great satisfaction in seeing lousy restaurants (due to employee attitudes) close down after we boycotted them and told friends not to go there. The survey did not mention whether disgruntled customers addressed their issue directly with the restaurant owner/manager. Most people don't want that kind of confrontation and simply don't return.
So, business owners - keep the above in mind when you suspect an employee is hurting your business! That is, if you still want to have a business.
Marshall, the ultimate consumer

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by JOES31

Mitch,
Interesting you would mention the flow tested jets. I changed out the jets that came in the Snyder's kit to the flow tested Renner's jets and the Snyder's jets actually worked a lot better. I was surprised. The Renner's jets were actually larger so maybe they flowed too much fuel.

I think the main problem is that we are dealing with a part that is over 80 years old and rebuilt who knows how many times over. I met another model a owner the other day. He has two, a coupe and a speedster. He has a running engine set up in his garage to test parts. He said he has rebuilt several carbs exactly the same way with the same exact parts. Some run beautifully and some don't run worth a damn.

I feel that if you're going to sell these rebuilt Zeniths they should be tested by the rebuilder on a running engine before they go out to the customer. I think others posted that Renner's and Bert's test them.

Joe,
i have rebuild many carbs using the generic whatever size jets all the suppliers deal with. yes the carbs run but they do run richer, the gav is not as responsive when adjusting it lean/ rich, and the overall carb performance is compromised. i have used these generic jets when i first got into model A ing about 2006 as i did not think myself properly flowed jets were needed. after running these carbs that way for a period of time i did always have black plugs and the slight richness smell from the exhaust. after a while i took these same carbs cracked them open and installed the flowed jets from renners corner and right away i noticed a difference on all the above. my plugs now burn perfect, the gav, and fuel mixture adjusts much better, the exhaust does not smell. i confirmed all of this with my emissions gas analyzer also. they do make a huge difference in operation.
not just my personal experience but the experience of many others also.

[H. L. Chauvin]

To add to Mr. Marshall V's comment, my wife & I recently went to try a newly opened Pizza Shop with some friends.

After taking our order, our female waitress walked over to an adjacent table where several boys & another waitress were eating pizza & they were all also eating fried chicken bought from a "different" fast food restaurant.

Our waitress & the other waitress, while standing & flirting with these boys, ate all of their friend's fried chicken, both licked their fingers to clean them, & then proceeded to bring out pizzas to us & other customers.

At our table, we took bets on how long this place would stay open.

The pizzas were not bad, but in a matter of weeks, you guessed it, the Pizza sign was removed & the front doors were locked.

FWIW: Intelligent self-employed individuals learn quickly that maintaining professional employees "today" ........... who really care .......... is 95% of the business owner's battle to remain in business ....... intelligent owners are "always" most eager to hear "directly" from their intelligent customers.