Help identifying a 1931 roadster

[George Miller]

Looks like a late 30 STD to me also.

[flatford39]

Cuernavaca???? Really...Is Los Mananitas still there??? It's worth the ten hour drive just to go to Cuernavaca.

I spent some time there in the early 80's and really fell in love with that city.

[36 conv sedan]

Yes, Las Mañanitas is still there...

Did you ever visit Barabara Hutton's magnificent oriental style home, Sumiya? It is now a 5 star hotel also. Camino Real. Great place.

In fact the car is just behind it, 5 mintutes away.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by 36 conv sedan

Charlie:

Our posts crossed. Thanks for the explanation on block numbers.

I have no idea how the car is titled to far... and my friend is not computer-friendly, so I will have to take a look at the car next monday morning in Cuernavaca (a city 1.5 hours from Mexico city) and hopefully see the papers back in Mexico city in the afternoon. If things match, they I could go ahead and get it.

If they don't, as you say, it would be trouble, more than it is worth, but I would still like to explore the possibility of getting it.

Question: How can I tell a 1931 model A ford engine from an earlier one? Do have have stamped numbers? I am hoping my friend might have a 1931 engine among the two he has...

thanks,
victor

Go here for a list of the serial numbers by month: http://mafca.com/data_eng_production.html The judging standards say to allow up to 3 months for the engine to be installed in the car (if produced in the United States) so any serial number after October 1930 could be in a 1931 vehicle. You should get a copy of the judging standards from the two national clubs (they got together to write it). See: https://mafca.com/cart/index.php?productID=115

Charlie Stephens

[Mike V. Florida]

Is it a good price for a roadster in Mexico?
Do deluxes go for much more money then standard?
Do you have affordable access to the parts to make it all one year, 1931?

I ask these questions because if the car in good condition and for a good, fair price, buy it.

Buy it, get it running well, stopping well, drive it often to learn about the workings of a Model A.

Don't worry about the paint, don't worry about the engine, don't worry about the other things that are not "factory".

After enjoying it for a while then, and only then, start to replace things.

The above it my opinion.

[Roadster Rich]

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From what I can see the top bows are a standard and just as they should be. Comparing to mine they look proportionally correct, so I would bet your windshield stantions are the taller ones for a standard. I would not want to make those changes to get to a smaller height (not so easy getting in and out of and worse driving sight lines). I don't see any reason why you could not make this correct as a standard (black top bow metal color) with just the added cowl lights. I think this was added to many back when they were purchased. I think you would wish you hadn't dropped the roof height it you do that.

[modelAtony]

Victor, If the car runs and drives as good as it looks , I think you have a great deal for 16,000. I would only change the battery away from firewall and put it back under floorboard. The heck with changing the paint, it looks like a fine car. Fill it with gas a drive the wheels off of it. PONCHO would have loved to have this car. Hope you enjoy the nice car , have fun modelAtony, tony white Lafayette, LA

[Steve Plucker]

You also might want to start with copies of the MARC/MAFCA Restoration Guidelines and Judging Standards (don't let the "Judging Standards" scare you) and a copy of the Model A Ford Service Bulletins.

Pluck

[36 conv sedan]

Originally Posted by Roadster Rich

From what I can see the top bows are a standard and just as they should be. Comparing to mine they look proportionally correct, so I would bet your windshield stantions are the taller ones for a standard. ...

Don't get me wrong... if the car was a Standard, I would like to take it back to Standard form. I am just trying to find out how to tell them appart, to understand what each model was, so I can figure out how restore it.

Yes... the car is good as it is and I can use it that way and enjoy it a lot... and I will, for a time, but eventually I would like to take it back to original.

One question: if the Standards had no cowl lights, do they have parking lights combined with the headlights? Were the headlights different from standard and Deluxe?

Or how do you turn on those cowl lights on the Deluxe?

Thanks!
victor

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by 36 conv sedan

Don't get me wrong... if the car was a Standard, I would like to take it back to Standard form. I am just trying to find out how to tell them appart, to understand what each model was, so I can figure out how restore it.

Yes... the car is good as it is and I can use it that way and enjoy it a lot... and I will, for a time, but eventually I would like to take it back to original.

One question: if the Standards had no cowl lights, do they have parking lights combined with the headlights? Were the headlights different from standard and Deluxe?

Or how do you turn on those cowl lights on the Deluxe?

Thanks!
victor

If the current owner restored the original cowl light set up, then there should be a special switch within the car under the gastank near the steering column. It is explained in the Standards and the Bulletins as described above.

And yes, if a car had no cowl lights, they did have parking lights within the headlamps.

Pluck

[36 conv sedan]

Originally Posted by Steve Plucker

,,,

And yes, if a car had no cowl lights, they did have parking lights within the headlamps.

Pluck

Pluck: Thanks!

And if the car had cowl lamps, would they have used parking lights also in the headlights? In other words, were the headlights identical from Standard to Deluxe?

[pgerhardt]

Originally Posted by western77

The B has a small plate with 2bolts holding it to the block just above the oil pan towards the front of the engine carb side. It also has no external oil return from the valve chamber. The valve cover is taller. JB

If the block is model B, I don't think the head is. I thought model B heads used a different water pump with three mounting studs and an integrated water outlet. It looks to me like it was put together with what ever was available at the time. So be ready for more surprises.

[Binger]

Seeing the B block makes you wonder what trans is behind it. There may be lots of surprises. if its an A head I wonder if it is high compression and possibly aluminum. Take a magnet and check! Wonder if it has the counter balanced crank in it too. Also it looks like it has hydraulic brakes on it too. I can see a brake hose in one of the pictures. That would explain the battery box on the fire wall.
The car looks like a great driver and I would leave it alone and enjoy it as is. Would be a major restoration to bring it up to the judging standards. Might be more fun just to drive it.

[Tom Wesenberg]

If your car had factory cowl lights, then the headlamp reflectors would be different, and they would NOT have the parking lights in them. The headlamp switch turns on the parking lights, or cowl lights if so equiped, but never when the headlamps are on.

[mshmodela]

Interesting paint choice, clearly not original but nonetheless tastefully done.

[henry's 31]

Hi Victor:

Your English seems fine. Do not worry about parts. You can get almost everything from the different vendors. I would drive it at first and then after a while restore it if that is what you want. If you want to go original purchase the Judging standards book. To work on the car purchase Andrews books. You can do a lot of the work yourself. Also join a local club if available. Welcome to the hobby!

[36 conv sedan]

Thank you all! I already commited to visit tomorrow. I will report on findings.

A local friend told me something about later 1931 models having an indented firewall and a gas shutter valve on the engine side, while earlier ones with a flat firewall had the gas shutter valve inside the car... can anybody elaborate on this?

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by 36 conv sedan

Thank you all! I already commited to visit tomorrow. I will report on findings.

A local friend told me something about later 1931 models having an indented firewall and a gas shutter valve on the engine side, while earlier ones with a flat firewall had the gas shutter valve inside the car... can anybody elaborate on this?

Yes your friend is correct about the indented firewall. That would have been a real easy way to tell the 1930 from a 1931. The indented firewall came out in April 1931. These cars had a different gas tank, fuel line, shut off, fuel filter, and carburetor.

As suggested, the first books to buy are the owners manual to see how ford wanted things to work and if they don't work that way you know you have a problem. Since you are planning to pick a "proper" year and model, the Restoration Guidelines. To repair the car, I would get he Les Andrews book and create a shortcut on your computer to this forum.

[36 conv sedan]

Rechecking on things, and comparing to the pictures of the car, I guess it is pretty safe to assume it is a 1931 model, because of the 3 screws in the lower door hinge, round speedometer and the one piece running board splash shield. I am not sure if it has the indented firewall or not, but I will check tomorrow.

Also, a Standard, because of the top bows with apparent correct style and geometry for that model.

So, I believe it is fairly safe to call it a 1931 Standard roadster.

[36 conv sedan]

What can I check on transmission? More than once, I read the comment of worries about the type of transmission it may have...

Can any of you give me clues as to what do I need to look for?

Thanks,
victor