The Ford Barn

spinelll · 01-02-2011, 01:16 PM

Last winter I changed by oil pan gaskets and my leaks proved worse than berfore. I think the bearing cap cork got whacked. In any case, this winter one of my projects is to change it again.
Yesterday, I tried to remove the pan but that baby is stuck. When I did the job last year I used a silicone permatex. I think that was a mistake. I can barely jam a razor knife between the pan and the block. How the heck can I get this thing off?

Leo

JD Miller · 01-02-2011, 01:59 PM

Try taking a good quality putty knife and drive it between the pan and the engine block pan rail. Work you way around the pan. Then take a heavy rubber mallet and tap the sides of the pan to break it loose.

As you found out there is no need to "glue" a pan to the engine. Pan gaskets work best without any type of sealer/cement applied when installing the pan. A little Form-A-Gasket at the joint where the rear cap gasket meets the pan gasket and some at the front where the pan gasket meets the rope gasket is all you need.

JD

V4F · 01-02-2011, 02:16 PM

make sure all the bolts are out ! ..................... steve

sturgis 39 · 01-02-2011, 03:06 PM

Do not forget the crank has to be in a special place or the pan will not come off all the way. This might apply to v8s. I can not remember.

JD Miller · 01-02-2011, 04:42 PM

It makes no difference in the position of the crank when removing the pan from a Model A.

brum1 · 01-02-2011, 04:52 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Unfortunately; sounds like a combination of a thin putty knife and a little bit of pounding with a rubber mallet (prevoius suggestion). Maybe you can use a flat peice of wood on the side of the pan to tap on as not to put any dents in your pan,

Good luck.

Dave in MN · 01-02-2011, 05:14 PM

As you found out there is no need to "glue" a pan to the engine. Pan gaskets work best without any type of sealer/cement applied when installing the pan. A little Form-A-Gasket at the joint where the rear cap gasket meets the pan gasket and some at the front where the pan gasket meets the rope gasket is all you need.

JD[/QUOTE]

JD, I agree only to the extent that to much sealant will put you in the position of the gent starting this post or worse. I have been using paper gaskets and a very thin bead of silicone on both sides of the pan gaskets for some time now.. the last 40 engines assembled. From my experience, it works really good. No leaks! To much sealant is a definite mistake as it will weld the pan to the rail but worse, it will most likely squeeze into the engine and if it breaks loose, it ends up in the oil pump screen or other places less desireable.
Good Day!
DAve in MN

Clem Clement · 01-02-2011, 05:57 PM

I use either a dalap of grease or a thread to tie the gasket in place during assembly. The pull the thread out.
Clem

ford1 · 01-02-2011, 06:40 PM

if you want to use a sealer to hold the gasket in place use a non hardening type and on the pan only, that way the gasket will come down with the pan

sonny30coupe · 01-02-2011, 11:45 PM

On that type of seal I use axle grease on my gaskets. That way they can be reused and they dont leak.

spinelll · 01-03-2011, 07:40 AM

All of the bolts are off.
The first method I tried was the putty knife. There just isn't enough of a gap to slide ir in. As I said, I'm barely able to push a utlitiy (razor) knife in there. It's also in an awkward position that doesn't offer good working room. I'm gonna try the wood bloack and hammer. Any cautions on that technique?
Any other suggestions?

Thanks
Leo

hop up · 01-03-2011, 08:49 AM

I have a few really nice oil pans that I'm not going to use Please let me know if you need one.

Dave in MN · 01-03-2011, 09:04 AM

[QUOTE=spinelll;136845]All of the bolts are off.
The first method I tried was the putty knife. There just isn't enough of a gap to slide ir in. As I said, I'm barely able to push a utlitiy (razor) knife in there. It's also in an awkward position that doesn't offer good working room. I'm gonna try the wood bloack and hammer. Any cautions on that technique?
Any other suggestions?

If the pan is stuck as you say, it would take a pretty big hammer to knock it loose with a block of wood. I've used a form of this method a big "dead blow" hammer and a lightly padded block of wood may do the job.
IMO: I would try the putty knife method again...use a narrow stiff putty knife that has been sharpened or use a gasket scraper. Try to drive the tool into the joint and just keep working at it. To get a corner loose to provide a place to start, look at the engine from the passenger side hood opening, you will note a bit of the pan extending beyond the edges of the side timing cover. A piece of hardwood 1x2 can be set on this edge and tapped with a mallet to break the seal. You should be driving the pan down at this edge. Don't over do it...get the pan to move a bit and then use the putty knife method to assist. Put a couple pan bolts in loosely to catch the pan when it lets loose.
Good luck!
Dave in MN

Bruce of MN · 01-03-2011, 09:47 AM

Try shortening the putty knife blade to 1.5" and sharpen it a bit. It'll be stiffer and maybe better to pound through the gasket.

Also, one of these http://www.thisnext.com/item/459AE2A...Bar-II-Pry-Bar

might give a better angle for your mallet.

Paul from Maine · 01-03-2011, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonny30coupe

On that type of seal I use axle grease on my gaskets. That way they can be reused and they dont leak.

Good advice, I always put sealer between the pan and the gasket and grease between the gasket and the block. That way I can reuse the gasket and it doesn't stick, though next time I think I'll only use grease.

Glenn C. · 01-03-2011, 11:10 AM

Be patient....Don't get too carried away with the hammer and wood block, as you could damage, break or crack the oil pump and or rear main bearing drain tube.

1931 flamingo · 01-03-2011, 12:02 PM

No offense, but you've got to love the implications of the post by "hop up".
Paul in CT

PC/SR · 01-03-2011, 12:53 PM

Use a thin or sharpended putty knife, and drive it in with a hammer on the seam between the block and gasket. You want the gasket to come down with the pan because it is a lot easier to clean off the pan than the bloc. I start on the left side because it is more accessible for me. Using the hammer on the knife handle is not going to hurt anything. Start with just the sharp corner of teh putty knife blade, not the full width. You can even use a pocket knife to first score the gasket for a place to put the corner of the putty knife. You may have to drive the putty knife along the seam with the hammer for a bit. Once it starts to loosen it goes pretty easy. I dont think pounding on the side of the pan will do the job--you have to break that seal.

hop up · 01-03-2011, 01:07 PM

HA HA HA

I didn't mean it like that but just pay the shipping if you do get crazy on her

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

No offense, but you've got to love the implications of the post by "hop up".
Paul in CT

Roger V · 01-03-2011, 02:48 PM

I had a pan that was so stuck nothing was working especially since the edge of the pan is so close to the frame. Finally, I tried a suggestion which worked. Cut off the end of a putty knife. Drive the cut off piece between the pan and block with a ball peen hammer. This gave enough room to do all of this whereas the handle of a putty knife even shortened did not allow space to hit it. Don't remember what the sealer was (I bought the car with this done) but it seemed like the next thing to being welded!

01-02-2011, 01:16 PM	#1
spinelll Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 337	Difficult Oil Pan Removal Last winter I changed by oil pan gaskets and my leaks proved worse than berfore. I think the bearing cap cork got whacked. In any case, this winter one of my projects is to change it again. Yesterday, I tried to remove the pan but that baby is stuck. When I did the job last year I used a silicone permatex. I think that was a mistake. I can barely jam a razor knife between the pan and the block. How the heck can I get this thing off? Leo

01-02-2011, 01:59 PM	#2
JD Miller Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Yorktown, VA Posts: 139	Re: Difficult Oil Pan Removal Try taking a good quality putty knife and drive it between the pan and the engine block pan rail. Work you way around the pan. Then take a heavy rubber mallet and tap the sides of the pan to break it loose. As you found out there is no need to "glue" a pan to the engine. Pan gaskets work best without any type of sealer/cement applied when installing the pan. A little Form-A-Gasket at the joint where the rear cap gasket meets the pan gasket and some at the front where the pan gasket meets the rope gasket is all you need. JD

01-02-2011, 02:16 PM	#3
V4F Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: ca. Posts: 2,522	Re: Difficult Oil Pan Removal make sure all the bolts are out ! ..................... steve __________________ V4f

01-02-2011, 03:06 PM	#4
sturgis 39 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Lead. South Dakota Posts: 963	Re: Difficult Oil Pan Removal Do not forget the crank has to be in a special place or the pan will not come off all the way. This might apply to v8s. I can not remember. __________________ IF IT CAN NOT BE FIXED WITH BLASTING WIRE, JB WELD OR DUCT TAPE ---IT CAN NOT BE FIXED Do not get me started on the stupidity of ethanol. I think one of the monitors is from Iowa and he will delete the thread.

01-02-2011, 04:42 PM	#5
JD Miller Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Yorktown, VA Posts: 139	Re: Difficult Oil Pan Removal It makes no difference in the position of the crank when removing the pan from a Model A.

01-02-2011, 04:52 PM	#6
brum1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Raynham, Mass. Posts: 583	Re: Difficult Oil Pan Removal Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Unfortunately; sounds like a combination of a thin putty knife and a little bit of pounding with a rubber mallet (prevoius suggestion). Maybe you can use a flat peice of wood on the side of the pan to tap on as not to put any dents in your pan, Good luck. __________________ "no one knows more than everyone"

01-02-2011, 05:14 PM	#7
Dave in MN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Jordan, MN Posts: 1,411	Silicone works well with paper gaskets As you found out there is no need to "glue" a pan to the engine. Pan gaskets work best without any type of sealer/cement applied when installing the pan. A little Form-A-Gasket at the joint where the rear cap gasket meets the pan gasket and some at the front where the pan gasket meets the rope gasket is all you need. JD[/QUOTE] JD, I agree only to the extent that to much sealant will put you in the position of the gent starting this post or worse. I have been using paper gaskets and a very thin bead of silicone on both sides of the pan gaskets for some time now.. the last 40 engines assembled. From my experience, it works really good. No leaks! To much sealant is a definite mistake as it will weld the pan to the rail but worse, it will most likely squeeze into the engine and if it breaks loose, it ends up in the oil pump screen or other places less desireable. Good Day! DAve in MN

01-02-2011, 05:57 PM	#8
Clem Clement Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 3,393	Re: Difficult Oil Pan Removal I use either a dalap of grease or a thread to tie the gasket in place during assembly. The pull the thread out. Clem

01-02-2011, 06:40 PM	#9
ford1 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: oroville ca. Posts: 1,554	Re: Difficult Oil Pan Removal if you want to use a sealer to hold the gasket in place use a non hardening type and on the pan only, that way the gasket will come down with the pan

01-02-2011, 11:45 PM	#10
sonny30coupe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kansas City KS Posts: 255	Re: Difficult Oil Pan Removal On that type of seal I use axle grease on my gaskets. That way they can be reused and they dont leak.

01-03-2011, 07:40 AM	#11
spinelll Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 337	Re: Difficult Oil Pan Removal All of the bolts are off. The first method I tried was the putty knife. There just isn't enough of a gap to slide ir in. As I said, I'm barely able to push a utlitiy (razor) knife in there. It's also in an awkward position that doesn't offer good working room. I'm gonna try the wood bloack and hammer. Any cautions on that technique? Any other suggestions? Thanks Leo

01-03-2011, 08:49 AM	#12
hop up Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 415	Re: Difficult Oil Pan Removal I have a few really nice oil pans that I'm not going to use Please let me know if you need one. __________________ Wanted flathead speed equipment Thanks

01-03-2011, 09:04 AM	#13
Dave in MN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Jordan, MN Posts: 1,411	Re: Difficult Oil Pan Removal [QUOTE=spinelll;136845]All of the bolts are off. The first method I tried was the putty knife. There just isn't enough of a gap to slide ir in. As I said, I'm barely able to push a utlitiy (razor) knife in there. It's also in an awkward position that doesn't offer good working room. I'm gonna try the wood bloack and hammer. Any cautions on that technique? Any other suggestions? If the pan is stuck as you say, it would take a pretty big hammer to knock it loose with a block of wood. I've used a form of this method a big "dead blow" hammer and a lightly padded block of wood may do the job. IMO: I would try the putty knife method again...use a narrow stiff putty knife that has been sharpened or use a gasket scraper. Try to drive the tool into the joint and just keep working at it. To get a corner loose to provide a place to start, look at the engine from the passenger side hood opening, you will note a bit of the pan extending beyond the edges of the side timing cover. A piece of hardwood 1x2 can be set on this edge and tapped with a mallet to break the seal. You should be driving the pan down at this edge. Don't over do it...get the pan to move a bit and then use the putty knife method to assist. Put a couple pan bolts in loosely to catch the pan when it lets loose. Good luck! Dave in MN Last edited by Dave in MN; 01-03-2011 at 02:01 PM.

01-03-2011, 09:47 AM	#14
Bruce of MN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: VA Posts: 1,411	Re: Difficult Oil Pan Removal Try shortening the putty knife blade to 1.5" and sharpen it a bit. It'll be stiffer and maybe better to pound through the gasket. Also, one of these http://www.thisnext.com/item/459AE2A...Bar-II-Pry-Bar might give a better angle for your mallet.

01-03-2011, 11:10 AM	#16
Glenn C. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Didsbury Alberta Posts: 838	Re: Difficult Oil Pan Removal Be patient....Don't get too carried away with the hammer and wood block, as you could damage, break or crack the oil pump and or rear main bearing drain tube.

01-03-2011, 12:02 PM	#17
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: Difficult Oil Pan Removal No offense, but you've got to love the implications of the post by "hop up". Paul in CT

01-03-2011, 12:53 PM	#18
PC/SR Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 1,279	Re: Difficult Oil Pan Removal Use a thin or sharpended putty knife, and drive it in with a hammer on the seam between the block and gasket. You want the gasket to come down with the pan because it is a lot easier to clean off the pan than the bloc. I start on the left side because it is more accessible for me. Using the hammer on the knife handle is not going to hurt anything. Start with just the sharp corner of teh putty knife blade, not the full width. You can even use a pocket knife to first score the gasket for a place to put the corner of the putty knife. You may have to drive the putty knife along the seam with the hammer for a bit. Once it starts to loosen it goes pretty easy. I dont think pounding on the side of the pan will do the job--you have to break that seal.

01-03-2011, 02:48 PM	#20
Roger V Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,593	Re: Difficult Oil Pan Removal I had a pan that was so stuck nothing was working especially since the edge of the pan is so close to the frame. Finally, I tried a suggestion which worked. Cut off the end of a putty knife. Drive the cut off piece between the pan and block with a ball peen hammer. This gave enough room to do all of this whereas the handle of a putty knife even shortened did not allow space to hit it. Don't remember what the sealer was (I bought the car with this done) but it seemed like the next thing to being welded!