The Ford Barn

John Stone · 08-04-2015, 05:21 PM

I've had a few stubborn heads. A couple were held by one stud that was rusted in the head and even with a lot of soaking they wouldn't come completely loose. Did get them up high enough to get a hack saw between the head and the block to cut them off. Then had to drive them out of the head. Only took about 3 hours to get the head off. And yes, I have one of the heavy duty head pullers which did get it high enough for the hack saw.

SeaSlugs · 08-04-2015, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Minerva had 1 stud that was HORRIBLE!!!!! After MUCH soaking, etc, it FINALLY turned with a stud remover & proceeded to lift the head. Still stuck in the head, I had to drive it back & forth MANY times with a punch, before it came out! The entire length was VERY rough, a BLACKISH/GREY color & looked like it had been literally WELDED TO THE HEAD! NEVER saw one like that before! "MAYBE" some kind of ELECTROLISIS or "SOMETHING"???? NO other studs were even rusty, at all. Any ideas??---Head was perfect, took it off because of a slight water leak between #3 & #4, causing a 5 second miss on those 2 cylinders, after sitting overnight.
Bill W.

Ive seen weirder stuff happen when all the conditions are JUST right and only one tiny bolt is the ground path (either due to paint or severe rust). Does weird stuff to the bolt.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 08-04-2015, 05:32 PM

Vermins' head had MANY rusty studs, worst ones were the long ones at the front, one screwed out with a pipe wrench & one snapped OFF!
RIGHT or WRONG, I always drill the head holes 1/16" OVERSIZE. ALSO did that on Flathead V-8's.
Bill W.

redmodelt · 08-04-2015, 05:56 PM

I have used a stud puller and removed all of them, lots less costly for the customer time wise replacing the studs. Got lucky and they all turned out, head was still tight but came off faster then fighting the studs and glue. I've tried the hanging route, along with wedges and tapping on the studs all at the same time, worked but took a while. Tried the starting with the nuts loose a couple of times, worked once. That flat plate might be the ticket! Trying to pull a very stuck head by pushing down on 4 (?) studs using that commerce made one kinda worries me.

Big hammer · 08-04-2015, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce

I always thought that clothesline fed into the cylinders through the spark plug hole to lift a stuck head was an automotive myth. Then, I heard from a reliable mechanic-friend that he had witnessed its success.
He said that it makes the clothesline pretty dirty and that, if you choose to try it, you should have a new rope ready to hang up -- or expect to eat at the pub.
However, I have never had a head that was so stuck that compression would not pop it loose.

I used 3/8 hollow core poly rope. I didn't get crazy with to much rope,just enough last inch before top dead. As for bending a rod, would not run full advanced timing and lugging your motor bend a rod? I am changing the rods because Babbitt leaving the rod. I used #1 and#4 cylinders at the same time

Willie Krash · 08-04-2015, 09:38 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Vermins' head had MANY rusty studs, worst ones were the long ones at the front, one screwed out with a pipe wrench & one snapped OFF!
RIGHT or WRONG, I always drill the head holes 1/16" OVERSIZE. ALSO did that on Flathead V-8's.
Bill W.

Bill I had a hell of time getting the head off. Same issue you had. I did the same thing. I could see the studs had shoulders and understood why, I driled the head anyway.... Not a 1/16.
I think I used a letter bit.
I was not gonna go through that again.
I took a dog hair, maybe a frogs hair off.

kevinmac/toledo · 08-04-2015, 09:53 PM

bill; sounds like one stud was leaking a little water,maybe....kev

john charlton · 09-12-2015, 02:59 PM

The stuck head resisted all attempts I tried so I decided to fabricate my own puller . I bought a piece of sheet steel cut to 20"X 8" X 5/8" thick . I laid a head gasket on it and centre punched all the stud locations and also the spark plug centres . I got a local machine shop to drill 1/2" holes where I had marked . I then bought 18 bolts 4 1/2 " long with 1/2" dia with a 3/4 " AF head . I then welded nuts to the plate as you see in the pics . I designed it that I could adjust the bolt length individually as most head studs vary in height . The bolts face downwards so the head contacts the head studs . I welded a nut on the top end so I could easily adjust to get even pressure on each stud . I cut down 4 spark plugs to make the pullers as you see in the pica . The back two bolts are adjusted from the underside as the cowl is too close to adjust from the top . The front two bolts go the right way up with the nuts welded on the top . I cropped the back end of the plate to clear the cowl. It weighs about 20lbs.

Modus Opperandi

Adjust bolt height by eye then lay the plate on top of the cylinder head and with the two front bolts backed nearly off the two front studs will locate in the plate holes and stabilise the plate while you screw in the spark plug hole tools . Tension everything up evenly and start pulling on the spark plug holes . As there is around four times the pull on the right side the head will tilt . When you have a 1/8" gap reinstall head nuts on that side and pull head down again . I repeated this many times untill a gap began to appear on the left side . I then drove in sections of cut carving knives then shallow wedges etc etc and slowly raised the head by alternating as before . Eventually you run out of stud height but by then you get in other tools to complete the job .
All the head studs were heavily rusted with a hard black deposit which had effectively rivetted the head to the block .

John in partly cloudy Suffolk County England

BILL WILLIAMSON · 09-12-2015, 03:29 PM

FABULOUS INENUITY, JOHN! !
Bill W.

midgetracer · 09-12-2015, 09:04 PM

I have put a small hydraulic jack between the water pump boss of the head and the timing gear cover. after soaking the head studs with Kroil. The head loosened up in the front. I worked it down and jacked it up numerous time and each time the back lifted further. Within an hour I had a very stuck head off the engine.

Tom Bellfoy · 09-12-2015, 09:21 PM

The tool which the vendors sell has the added benefit of keeping the block centered from side to side. With the chain/spark plug method the motor is tilted sideways as the spark plug are off to the side of the motor and can be a real bummer trying to get the rear motor mounts to align up.

Phil Brown · 09-13-2015, 12:56 AM

Just to give you an idea of just how much pull those pullers pull I made a 3 piece head with one

Days of soaking , heat , knives cut into wedges,stuck like it was welded on. Then it broke so we finished it with a six pound hammer. Found 8 of the studs rusted to the head solid but the puller got the head off,not usable....but off

john charlton · 09-13-2015, 03:45 AM

I did try the small hydraulic jack between the water pump boss and the head . I had a jack which fitted perfectly but no go . I pumped as hard as I dared but came up solid also a friend had tried this and cracked the block his head did not move so I did not persevere with this method .

John in partly cloudy sunday morning Suffolk County England

john charlton · 09-13-2015, 03:49 AM

OOOPS !!! Should be between waterpump boss and block .

John in same weather and same place .

rmonty1 · 09-13-2015, 10:24 AM

I just removed the head on a '29 by taking a 2x4, and cutting an angle on it....I placed the 2x4 along the top of the timing cover, with the short piece I cut off of 2x4 inserted by the generator, supporting the top piece. I then cut another angled 2x4, and used a 4 lb dead blow hammer to drive this as a wedge under the water pump boss on the head, little by little, it loosened the head in the front. I did remove the water neck, and was able to break the two front studs loose after hours of soaking in PB Blaster. Removing these 2 longer studs seemed to help a lot.

Once I had the front loose, I made some wooden wedges to slowly start putting in on both sides....tap tap tap....other side....tap tap tap. Once I got the head up enough to make a difference, I used the dead blow hammer to gently tap the head back down, and then started over. A whole can of PB Blaster later, and about 4 hours of off and on soaking and tapping, the head slid off the studs.

BTW....I used a pressure treated 2x4.....it was much denser than a regular 2x4.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 09-13-2015, 10:59 AM

Be SO careful in using bars, screwdrivers, etc, a friend took a chunk out of the side of a block, on a LOW mileage Ron Kelley rebuilt engine!!!
Bill W.

40 Deluxe · 09-13-2015, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Be SO careful in using bars, screwdrivers, etc, a friend took a chunk out of the side of a block, on a LOW mileage Ron Kelley rebuilt engine!!!
Bill W.

What caused the head to stick on a low mileage engine? One would expect it to come off easily.

brum1 · 09-13-2015, 01:41 PM

Even with a good head puller, a little heat goes a long way, oxy/acetylene works best

john charlton · 09-14-2015, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2rosella

Hello John Charlton.....I have sent you a PM.

Hi Rob. Replied with contact details.

John in dull overcast grey east Suffolk, pacing up and down waiting for the shippers to call me to fetch my new '31 CCPU

Cornishman · 10-28-2016, 02:55 AM

I have just removed the head on my A. In the end it was fairly straightforward. I put WD40 down the stud holes and left it for three days. I then turned the engine over and this loosened the rear of the head but the front remained firm. I repeated the WD40 trick and three days later got the head off reasonably easily.

08-04-2015, 05:21 PM	#21
John Stone Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wichita, Kansas Posts: 710	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head I've had a few stubborn heads. A couple were held by one stud that was rusted in the head and even with a lot of soaking they wouldn't come completely loose. Did get them up high enough to get a hack saw between the head and the block to cut them off. Then had to drive them out of the head. Only took about 3 hours to get the head off. And yes, I have one of the heavy duty head pullers which did get it high enough for the hack saw.

08-04-2015, 05:32 PM	#23
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head Vermins' head had MANY rusty studs, worst ones were the long ones at the front, one screwed out with a pipe wrench & one snapped OFF! RIGHT or WRONG, I always drill the head holes 1/16" OVERSIZE. ALSO did that on Flathead V-8's. Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

08-04-2015, 05:56 PM	#24
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head I have used a stud puller and removed all of them, lots less costly for the customer time wise replacing the studs. Got lucky and they all turned out, head was still tight but came off faster then fighting the studs and glue. I've tried the hanging route, along with wedges and tapping on the studs all at the same time, worked but took a while. Tried the starting with the nuts loose a couple of times, worked once. That flat plate might be the ticket! Trying to pull a very stuck head by pushing down on 4 (?) studs using that commerce made one kinda worries me.

08-04-2015, 09:53 PM	#27
kevinmac/toledo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: toledo,ohio Posts: 171	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head bill; sounds like one stud was leaking a little water,maybe....kev

09-12-2015, 03:29 PM	#29
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head FABULOUS INENUITY, JOHN! ! Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

09-12-2015, 09:04 PM	#30
midgetracer Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bismarck ND Posts: 1,189	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head I have put a small hydraulic jack between the water pump boss of the head and the timing gear cover. after soaking the head studs with Kroil. The head loosened up in the front. I worked it down and jacked it up numerous time and each time the back lifted further. Within an hour I had a very stuck head off the engine.

09-12-2015, 09:21 PM	#31
Tom Bellfoy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Cumberland, ON Posts: 252	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head The tool which the vendors sell has the added benefit of keeping the block centered from side to side. With the chain/spark plug method the motor is tilted sideways as the spark plug are off to the side of the motor and can be a real bummer trying to get the rear motor mounts to align up.

09-13-2015, 12:56 AM	#32
Phil Brown Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santee Calif. Posts: 507	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head Just to give you an idea of just how much pull those pullers pull I made a 3 piece head with one Days of soaking , heat , knives cut into wedges,stuck like it was welded on. Then it broke so we finished it with a six pound hammer. Found 8 of the studs rusted to the head solid but the puller got the head off,not usable....but off

09-13-2015, 03:45 AM	#33
john charlton Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,304	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head I did try the small hydraulic jack between the water pump boss and the head . I had a jack which fitted perfectly but no go . I pumped as hard as I dared but came up solid also a friend had tried this and cracked the block his head did not move so I did not persevere with this method . John in partly cloudy sunday morning Suffolk County England

09-13-2015, 03:49 AM	#34
john charlton Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,304	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head OOOPS !!! Should be between waterpump boss and block . John in same weather and same place .

09-13-2015, 10:24 AM	#35
rmonty1 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 6	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head I just removed the head on a '29 by taking a 2x4, and cutting an angle on it....I placed the 2x4 along the top of the timing cover, with the short piece I cut off of 2x4 inserted by the generator, supporting the top piece. I then cut another angled 2x4, and used a 4 lb dead blow hammer to drive this as a wedge under the water pump boss on the head, little by little, it loosened the head in the front. I did remove the water neck, and was able to break the two front studs loose after hours of soaking in PB Blaster. Removing these 2 longer studs seemed to help a lot. Once I had the front loose, I made some wooden wedges to slowly start putting in on both sides....tap tap tap....other side....tap tap tap. Once I got the head up enough to make a difference, I used the dead blow hammer to gently tap the head back down, and then started over. A whole can of PB Blaster later, and about 4 hours of off and on soaking and tapping, the head slid off the studs. BTW....I used a pressure treated 2x4.....it was much denser than a regular 2x4.

09-13-2015, 10:59 AM	#36
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head Be SO careful in using bars, screwdrivers, etc, a friend took a chunk out of the side of a block, on a LOW mileage Ron Kelley rebuilt engine!!! Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

09-13-2015, 01:41 PM	#38
brum1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Raynham, Mass. Posts: 583	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head Even with a good head puller, a little heat goes a long way, oxy/acetylene works best __________________ "no one knows more than everyone"

10-28-2016, 02:55 AM	#40
Cornishman Senior Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: Le Ravary, France Posts: 241	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head I have just removed the head on my A. In the end it was fairly straightforward. I put WD40 down the stud holes and left it for three days. I then turned the engine over and this loosened the rear of the head but the front remained firm. I repeated the WD40 trick and three days later got the head off reasonably easily.