The Ford Barn

Scotts216 · 01-29-2022, 10:23 PM

Won't Start.... Frustrating. Was running fine, then one day no luck, not even a cough. Selling late father's last car and have offers, but need to get started.

Electrical checks out. Have voltage to the points.

Carb wet at the back.
New viton tipped needle. Was originally at 5/8" Need to recheck
Blown out with air.
After cranking, check plugs and they are dry. Seems I am not able to draw fuel up into the engine. Plug colors good.

Can vents get clogged?

New intake to carb gasket new so assume no air leak.

Searching for articles about the carb. Have found some good info.

Also good tips from a search of the forum

Any thoughts tips recommendations appreciated.

Bottom drain plug stripped, ARRGH.... Re-tap? I've read to drill and tap next size up??

Thanks.....

Mike Peters · 01-29-2022, 11:17 PM

If your battery is a bit low, then voltage to the points will be low, causing a weak spark. Give the battery a good charge and then try starting again.

Scotts216 · 01-29-2022, 11:38 PM

Yes, I wondered that about the battery voltage. 1 1/2 year old battery, but 6 V batteries don't last long in my experience. It is fully charged and adequately cranks the engine over, but it would be a good idea to have i load tested....

ronn · 01-30-2022, 03:06 AM

pour a little fuel in each plug

try some teflon tape on your drain plug first.

nkaminar · 01-30-2022, 07:23 AM

Where are you located?

You say you have voltage to the points. Good. But have you checked to see if you have sparks at the plugs? You can just arrange the plug wires (straps) so that they have a 1/4 inch gap at the plugs or at the distributor and crank it over to observe.

If it is a fuel issue then squirting a little gasoline in the carburetor inlet will answer that question. If it fires but won't run then there is a problem in the carburetor or in the fuel delivery from the tank.

chap52 · 01-30-2022, 07:46 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Here is a handy little booklet that might help. Chap

Patrick L. · 01-30-2022, 07:58 AM

Is the voltage at the points when they are open or closed ? Voltage should go to zero when closed.
Take the secondary coil wire and place it 1/4" from a good ground. Key on open/close the points and watch for the spark.
That should point you in the right direction.

eagle · 01-30-2022, 10:51 AM

First things to check when car won't fire..... Is there SPARK. Lift a couple spark plug straps and crank the engine, IS THERE SPARK? If not, first thing is to check point side of coil, turn engine over slowly with crank, using a voltmeter the point side of coil should be battery when points open, GROUND when points close. If not clean points, check ign switch. Second thing to check... is there FUEL? look in carb throat after choking, do you see gas? Should be. Have you flooded it? Pull a plug and check to see if wet. I am NOT a believer in starting fluid, you'll kill spark plugs in a hurry.

Ruth · 01-30-2022, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chap52

Here is a handy little booklet that might help. Chap

Neat little guide. But is there a page/part missing?

Scotts216 · 01-30-2022, 11:04 AM

Points open when checking voltage there.

I tried cranking with spark plug leads off and really didn't see any thick blue spark jump, but I need to try that whole process again.

The car is an older restoration but very little mileage. The cap and rotor are essentially like new, but I guess there could be an issue there distributing the spark to the plugs.

It seems that I have had difficulty starting the car ongoing. But, when it runs it runs great. Just weird that it starts and runs, then it won't. Hard to understand what could fail just sitting.....

So I will keep fiddling. And I have to either fix the stripped drain plug or think about a new carb....
Thanks for the ideas thus far......

I feel like the ignition switch is fine. I have voltage all the way to the swing arm side of the points for sure.

Scotts216 · 01-30-2022, 11:08 AM

I definitely have fuel to the carb and in the bowl, but when cranking, the plugs are dry, so I think fuel problem,

But, I tried some starter fluid, and nothing, so then I think electrical.

So I will persevere.

Crazy how such a simple system can be so difficult...... !

Kurt in NJ · 01-30-2022, 11:26 AM

The voltage at the points has to go away when the points are closed if it doesn't the contacts are corroded and need cleaned.
Another thing i have found with ethonal fuel is that if fuel is left in the bowl (gas valve left on) that the tips of the jets can get clogged with goo.

Scotts216 · 01-30-2022, 11:38 AM

The needle is brand new viton tipped.

On a previous non start event, plugs looked a little carbon fouled, and I took them out and wire brushed them clean and then it started. Plugs right now have a good tan color on the insulator, and appear to be just right. Agree that fuel today is junk.

I always turn the gas valve off, but it does leak a very little bit. I was having fuel dripping from the carb problem, even with the valve turned off. I originally thought it was the bottom gaskets, but then have found that there is a weep hole and also that there was fuel in the rear inlet.....I think this means the float fuel level is too high??

So, I have fuel in th bowl, so it should at least run, right?

Big hammer · 01-30-2022, 01:07 PM

Clean the points! Use a cardboard lid (ruff side against the points) and drag the cardboard through the points. If you see a black streak your points where/are dirty. Then check/set points gap .020 +,- .002 . Start it and go for a nice long drive!

ronn · 01-30-2022, 01:17 PM

But, I tried some starter fluid, and nothing, so then I think electrical.

I did the same and got nothing. friend sprayed carb cleaner in my carb and it fired- hence put a little fuel in each plug and you will have your answer.

TC29phaeton · 01-30-2022, 03:58 PM

If the back of the carburetor is wet from gas, it sounds like the carburetor float
may be stuck out of position...
Tap from of carb with lite hammer to reset float...

Scotts216 · 01-30-2022, 04:07 PM

Well guys.... The battery test full on 100%

I removed the spark plug leads from the posts on the distributor posts and set the plug leads close to all 4 posts on the cap. Key on and cranked.... No spark at all from the leads to the posts, so I now have to assume that I have an issue somewhere between the coil, coil wire or distributor? I do have voltage at both sides of th distributor. I had not test the coil for ohms. Maybe I need to try a test where I see if I have spark from the coil distributor wire?

I still think I also have a fuel issue as well, but working on that too.....

burner31 · 01-30-2022, 04:09 PM

Loosen up the ignition cable into the distributor, then back in...finger tight
Can't hurt

Synchro909 · 01-30-2022, 05:18 PM

Firstly, I'm assuming nothing has been done that could change the timing.
Make sure there is voltage at the movable point when they are open and none when they are closed. If the points are dirty, there will be voltage when they appear to be closed. If that is the case, no current is flowing when they are closed, so no magnetic fields in the coil. Check the resistance of the coil. A 6v coil should be about 3 ohms. Check the resistance of the condenser - should be open circuit. Don't dismiss spark leaking to earth through the rotor button (try another one). Same with the body and cap.
If there is voltage at the points and they are clean, the problem must be between there and the plug. You're narrowing it down.

JBill · 01-30-2022, 05:19 PM

As for the fuel issue: Has the car run since the new carb to manifold gasket was installed? I wouldn't just assume that it's tight and seated properly and there are no leaks. Wouldn't hurt to double check it. If there is a leak there it would account for your not being able to draw fuel. There probably isn't, but who knows?

01-29-2022, 10:23 PM	#1
Scotts216 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 21	Won't Start.... Won't Start.... Frustrating. Was running fine, then one day no luck, not even a cough. Selling late father's last car and have offers, but need to get started. Electrical checks out. Have voltage to the points. Carb wet at the back. New viton tipped needle. Was originally at 5/8" Need to recheck Blown out with air. After cranking, check plugs and they are dry. Seems I am not able to draw fuel up into the engine. Plug colors good. Can vents get clogged? New intake to carb gasket new so assume no air leak. Searching for articles about the carb. Have found some good info. Also good tips from a search of the forum Any thoughts tips recommendations appreciated. Bottom drain plug stripped, ARRGH.... Re-tap? I've read to drill and tap next size up?? Thanks.....

01-29-2022, 11:17 PM	#2
Mike Peters Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: South East Wisconsin Posts: 1,279	Re: Won't Start.... If your battery is a bit low, then voltage to the points will be low, causing a weak spark. Give the battery a good charge and then try starting again.

01-29-2022, 11:38 PM	#3
Scotts216 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 21	Re: Won't Start.... Yes, I wondered that about the battery voltage. 1 1/2 year old battery, but 6 V batteries don't last long in my experience. It is fully charged and adequately cranks the engine over, but it would be a good idea to have i load tested....

01-30-2022, 03:06 AM	#4
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,793	Re: Won't Start.... pour a little fuel in each plug try some teflon tape on your drain plug first.

01-30-2022, 07:23 AM	#5
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,900	Re: Won't Start.... Where are you located? You say you have voltage to the points. Good. But have you checked to see if you have sparks at the plugs? You can just arrange the plug wires (straps) so that they have a 1/4 inch gap at the plugs or at the distributor and crank it over to observe. If it is a fuel issue then squirting a little gasoline in the carburetor inlet will answer that question. If it fires but won't run then there is a problem in the carburetor or in the fuel delivery from the tank. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

01-30-2022, 07:58 AM	#7
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Won't Start.... Is the voltage at the points when they are open or closed ? Voltage should go to zero when closed. Take the secondary coil wire and place it 1/4" from a good ground. Key on open/close the points and watch for the spark. That should point you in the right direction.

01-30-2022, 10:51 AM	#8
eagle Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Eagle Bend, MN Posts: 2,025	Re: Won't Start.... First things to check when car won't fire..... Is there SPARK. Lift a couple spark plug straps and crank the engine, IS THERE SPARK? If not, first thing is to check point side of coil, turn engine over slowly with crank, using a voltmeter the point side of coil should be battery when points open, GROUND when points close. If not clean points, check ign switch. Second thing to check... is there FUEL? look in carb throat after choking, do you see gas? Should be. Have you flooded it? Pull a plug and check to see if wet. I am NOT a believer in starting fluid, you'll kill spark plugs in a hurry. __________________ "There are some that can destroy an anvil with a teaspoon and shouldn't be allowed to touch anything resembling a tool."

01-30-2022, 11:04 AM	#10
Scotts216 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 21	Re: Won't Start.... Points open when checking voltage there. I tried cranking with spark plug leads off and really didn't see any thick blue spark jump, but I need to try that whole process again. The car is an older restoration but very little mileage. The cap and rotor are essentially like new, but I guess there could be an issue there distributing the spark to the plugs. It seems that I have had difficulty starting the car ongoing. But, when it runs it runs great. Just weird that it starts and runs, then it won't. Hard to understand what could fail just sitting..... So I will keep fiddling. And I have to either fix the stripped drain plug or think about a new carb.... Thanks for the ideas thus far...... I feel like the ignition switch is fine. I have voltage all the way to the swing arm side of the points for sure.

01-30-2022, 11:08 AM	#11
Scotts216 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 21	Re: Won't Start.... I definitely have fuel to the carb and in the bowl, but when cranking, the plugs are dry, so I think fuel problem, But, I tried some starter fluid, and nothing, so then I think electrical. So I will persevere. Crazy how such a simple system can be so difficult...... !

01-30-2022, 11:26 AM	#12
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,159	Re: Won't Start.... The voltage at the points has to go away when the points are closed if it doesn't the contacts are corroded and need cleaned. Another thing i have found with ethonal fuel is that if fuel is left in the bowl (gas valve left on) that the tips of the jets can get clogged with goo.

01-30-2022, 11:38 AM	#13
Scotts216 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 21	Re: Won't Start.... The needle is brand new viton tipped. On a previous non start event, plugs looked a little carbon fouled, and I took them out and wire brushed them clean and then it started. Plugs right now have a good tan color on the insulator, and appear to be just right. Agree that fuel today is junk. I always turn the gas valve off, but it does leak a very little bit. I was having fuel dripping from the carb problem, even with the valve turned off. I originally thought it was the bottom gaskets, but then have found that there is a weep hole and also that there was fuel in the rear inlet.....I think this means the float fuel level is too high?? So, I have fuel in th bowl, so it should at least run, right?

01-30-2022, 01:07 PM	#14
Big hammer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Land of Lincoln Posts: 3,131	Re: Won't Start.... Clean the points! Use a cardboard lid (ruff side against the points) and drag the cardboard through the points. If you see a black streak your points where/are dirty. Then check/set points gap .020 +,- .002 . Start it and go for a nice long drive! __________________ Don't force it with a little hammer tap, tap, tap get a bigger hammer tap done

01-30-2022, 01:17 PM	#15
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,793	Re: Won't Start.... But, I tried some starter fluid, and nothing, so then I think electrical. I did the same and got nothing. friend sprayed carb cleaner in my carb and it fired- hence put a little fuel in each plug and you will have your answer.

01-30-2022, 03:58 PM	#16
TC29phaeton Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 1	Re: Won't Start.... If the back of the carburetor is wet from gas, it sounds like the carburetor float may be stuck out of position... Tap from of carb with lite hammer to reset float...

01-30-2022, 04:07 PM	#17
Scotts216 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 21	Re: Won't Start.... Well guys.... The battery test full on 100% I removed the spark plug leads from the posts on the distributor posts and set the plug leads close to all 4 posts on the cap. Key on and cranked.... No spark at all from the leads to the posts, so I now have to assume that I have an issue somewhere between the coil, coil wire or distributor? I do have voltage at both sides of th distributor. I had not test the coil for ohms. Maybe I need to try a test where I see if I have spark from the coil distributor wire? I still think I also have a fuel issue as well, but working on that too.....

01-30-2022, 04:09 PM	#18
burner31 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Shawnee, Ok Posts: 3,471	Re: Won't Start.... Loosen up the ignition cable into the distributor, then back in...finger tight Can't hurt __________________ Keith Shawnee OK '31 SW 160-B

01-30-2022, 05:18 PM	#19
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: Won't Start.... Firstly, I'm assuming nothing has been done that could change the timing. Make sure there is voltage at the movable point when they are open and none when they are closed. If the points are dirty, there will be voltage when they appear to be closed. If that is the case, no current is flowing when they are closed, so no magnetic fields in the coil. Check the resistance of the coil. A 6v coil should be about 3 ohms. Check the resistance of the condenser - should be open circuit. Don't dismiss spark leaking to earth through the rotor button (try another one). Same with the body and cap. If there is voltage at the points and they are clean, the problem must be between there and the plug. You're narrowing it down.

01-30-2022, 05:19 PM	#20
JBill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 702	Re: Won't Start.... As for the fuel issue: Has the car run since the new carb to manifold gasket was installed? I wouldn't just assume that it's tight and seated properly and there are no leaks. Wouldn't hurt to double check it. If there is a leak there it would account for your not being able to draw fuel. There probably isn't, but who knows?