The Ford Barn

SUHRsc · 12-31-2022, 10:40 PM

I'm trying to determine on a 1928 body. The cowl sides went from the short welting flange to the longer one. Did this change happen at the same time that the firewall went to having the "bump" recessed at the edges? If so when did this change happen? If not, when did each change happen separately?

thank you for any help!
Zach

rotorwrench · 01-01-2023, 11:36 AM

We would need to know which body you have questions about to insure a better answer.

On some things, it helps to know whether the car is complete with all original body parts. Some parts are easy to date and others not quite so much. Things like the emergency brake system and the gas tank can date a car more rapidly.

brito36 · 01-01-2023, 11:45 AM

A cowl flange chance occurred about August of 1928 when the front flange was made longer. With this chance a change in the hood shelves also.

SUHRsc · 01-01-2023, 04:40 PM

Thank you, it's a roadster ... What I want to know is if the firewall changed at the same time as the flanges. The early firewall humped out section goes all the way to the edges but the later firewall has a small space along the edge before the "bump" starts. I speculate that this was done to give clearance for the rivets for the welting on the long flange. Basically what I'm trying to determine is if this flange was cut down or not ...

rotorwrench · 01-01-2023, 10:31 PM

The flange for the cowl lacing looks to be close to most 1928/29 metal body cowl lower quarters but there has been work on them and the upper cowl or gas tank. It looks like flush head rivets along a line that originally had a smooth finish just dehind the flange. The smaller flush head rivets were to attach the lacing flange to the lower firewall. The front of the tank looks like it's been worked on too. The lank lacing flange usually has the wire on lacing but otherwise the flange looks relatively normal.

It's not unusual to find any number of repairs on those lower cowl quarters. Some I've seen were reflective of a diy guy that had limited skill or tool resources at hand. I've seen much worse repair attempts.

SUHRsc · 01-02-2023, 10:10 PM

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I'm attaching a photo of each of the different firewalls I'm referring to... one with the big bump going all the way to the edge and one with the bump stopping about 1" before the edge.

My question is, was the short cowl side flange ever used from the factory on a firewall that has the narrower bump with the 1" flat at the edges.

I'm trying to determine, based on this info if my car was originally made with long flange cowl sides, and someone cut them down.

I can't answer questions about the rest of the car because it is not all stock. this is actually historical race car that I am trying to pin down the history on.

rotorwrench · 01-03-2023, 10:07 AM

Ford made a lot of changes from the start of production in late 1927 and through 1928 and fewer in 1929. Most of the steel body cars had the one on the right in the photos above in post #6. There was a firewall stamped for use with right hand drive as well. At least some of the wood body cars made by the subcontractors had a two piece lower firewall set up due to the straight side design in the Fordor and Cabriolet designs made in the 1928/29 time frame. Canadian produced cars are a whole other mystery to me.

I don't have the MARC/MAFCA judging standards manual so I can't see what they say about those lower firewalls. All of the replacement sheet metal that is now available is of the design that is most common. Maybe someone with a better knowledge of the early 1927 and 28 model A production cars will add more information. I saw that firewall on Finks' Parts ebay adds and noticed it was a wide surface type. It's not one I see a lot of.

Just to add: I looked at my April 1929 cowl today and it has the narrow firewall face and the extended metal on the cowl side quarters. I'm sure they extended it so that the split nails used for the hood lacing could be installed by one person on the front side of the firewall. The way those early firewalls were set up the nails would have to extend into the inside of the cab where another person would have to bend the nail halves over while another guy would have to hold the nail in place on the outside. That would definitely be a production problem in the eyes of Henry Ford.

12-31-2022, 10:40 PM	#1
SUHRsc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: near Hershey, PA Posts: 875	1928 Firewall & Cowl Side Changes I'm trying to determine on a 1928 body. The cowl sides went from the short welting flange to the longer one. Did this change happen at the same time that the firewall went to having the "bump" recessed at the edges? If so when did this change happen? If not, when did each change happen separately? thank you for any help! Zach __________________ -WANTED- Pre-War Speed Equipment Davies or Morrison Intake Manifold 77-6050B, 81AS - 81SB - 99AS - 99SB 19AS cylinder heads

01-01-2023, 11:36 AM	#2
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: 1928 Firewall & Cowl Side Changes We would need to know which body you have questions about to insure a better answer. On some things, it helps to know whether the car is complete with all original body parts. Some parts are easy to date and others not quite so much. Things like the emergency brake system and the gas tank can date a car more rapidly.

01-01-2023, 11:45 AM	#3
brito36 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Marengo. Illinois Posts: 262	Re: 1928 Firewall & Cowl Side Changes A cowl flange chance occurred about August of 1928 when the front flange was made longer. With this chance a change in the hood shelves also.

01-01-2023, 10:31 PM	#5
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: 1928 Firewall & Cowl Side Changes The flange for the cowl lacing looks to be close to most 1928/29 metal body cowl lower quarters but there has been work on them and the upper cowl or gas tank. It looks like flush head rivets along a line that originally had a smooth finish just dehind the flange. The smaller flush head rivets were to attach the lacing flange to the lower firewall. The front of the tank looks like it's been worked on too. The lank lacing flange usually has the wire on lacing but otherwise the flange looks relatively normal. It's not unusual to find any number of repairs on those lower cowl quarters. Some I've seen were reflective of a diy guy that had limited skill or tool resources at hand. I've seen much worse repair attempts.

01-03-2023, 10:07 AM	#7
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: 1928 Firewall & Cowl Side Changes Ford made a lot of changes from the start of production in late 1927 and through 1928 and fewer in 1929. Most of the steel body cars had the one on the right in the photos above in post #6. There was a firewall stamped for use with right hand drive as well. At least some of the wood body cars made by the subcontractors had a two piece lower firewall set up due to the straight side design in the Fordor and Cabriolet designs made in the 1928/29 time frame. Canadian produced cars are a whole other mystery to me. I don't have the MARC/MAFCA judging standards manual so I can't see what they say about those lower firewalls. All of the replacement sheet metal that is now available is of the design that is most common. Maybe someone with a better knowledge of the early 1927 and 28 model A production cars will add more information. I saw that firewall on Finks' Parts ebay adds and noticed it was a wide surface type. It's not one I see a lot of. Just to add: I looked at my April 1929 cowl today and it has the narrow firewall face and the extended metal on the cowl side quarters. I'm sure they extended it so that the split nails used for the hood lacing could be installed by one person on the front side of the firewall. The way those early firewalls were set up the nails would have to extend into the inside of the cab where another person would have to bend the nail halves over while another guy would have to hold the nail in place on the outside. That would definitely be a production problem in the eyes of Henry Ford. Last edited by rotorwrench; 01-03-2023 at 07:56 PM.