Pretty dumb question

[aermotor]

With all the advances in electronics and electronic pick up sensors it seems to me that some one should have a gage that could actually tell what the spark advance is with a glance at a panel gage while driving. Is there such an animal? - sure would be nice to have. Not interested in smart phone apps, just an old school gage.

[James Rogers]

I believe you are asking for a contradiction in terms. You mention the current advancements in technology yet then you want an old school gauge. Which do you expect? There are old school methods to exact timing and advance available but advanced technology type means which could be observed in the cab, have not been developed to my knowledge.

[aermotor]

James, I think you ansewered my question, is there a means to observe what the spark advance is while driving the car? - no. It seems to me that this would be of help to adjust the spark advance more accuratley while driving in different conditions other than spark lever "about here"

[Rex_A_Lott]

I'm glad that "about there" has been good enough for all these years.
Sometimes I think we outsmart ourselves trying to apply modern technology to this old iron. To me that's part of the beauty of the hobby, I'm amazed at what they accomplished back when they didnt know any better.

[marc hildebrant]

The amount of advance is a direct relationship to the setting of the spark lever, but the amount needed by the engine is a function of many things.

I like using my brain to set the timing as it's a skill and a way to be "connected" with the driving experience that isn't found in today's cars.

If you want to know the exact amount of advance, just count the notches on the spark lever.

Marc

[mcorrell]

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A large part of the fun of driving an "A" to me is actually getting to "drive" the car, including double clutching, adjusting the spark advance, and adjusting the GAV valve. Yes, there are times I forget to do so but "Bess" is always quick to let me know something is amiss.

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by aermotor

With all the advances in electronics and electronic pick up sensors it seems to me that some one should have a gage that could actually tell what the spark advance is with a glance at a panel gage while driving. Is there such an animal? - sure would be nice to have. Not interested in smart phone apps, just an old school gage.

One could put some timing marks on the pulley and cover then just use a timing light to look at the amount of advance related to lever position. No gauge involved.

[Mitch//pa]

its easier to just put one mark on the pulley and cover at O deg
then use a timing light that has advance / retard settings to check where its at.....

aermotor it was a good question as we got some dialouge from it....

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by aermotor

With all the advances in electronics and electronic pick up sensors it seems to me that some one should have a gage that could actually tell what the spark advance is with a glance at a panel gage while driving. Is there such an animal? - sure would be nice to have. Not interested in smart phone apps, just an old school gage.

Good question !
I use an 'old time' timing light and crank /case marks to check on my timing efforts...easy. However, that is not your question, if I get your question correctly, i.e.- you want to see (gage) what is happening at any moment what timing is at and then use that to change lever..no ?
My thoughts , to eliminate your anxiety/frustration with this situation, are that you should check out a distributor with AUTO advance...already available from several sources.
BTW there have been several recent threads, whereby experienced drivers state that they may have harmed/ruined engines by driving with 'bad' timing practice. So , I can easily see where newbies / semi experienced drivers of Model A engines are concerned. After all thee engines are not cheap to rebuild/repair. If you do invent such a view gage, let me know, eh

[Brentwood Bob]

I have been in a multi engine light plane and the pilot would get the engines in sync by feathering the throttle for one of the engines and use the sound to get the engines vibration minimized.
I think experience driving the model a falls into this scenario.
If you ride with an experienced driver they will be adjusting the spark, the dash control, and down shift at the same time they manage to answer your probing questions, and navigate the road. They probably aren't even aware of the fact that they optimize the performance of the 27 horses. I still remember pulling into the driveway after a joyride with a happy owner and earl fisher reached in and adjusted the dash control while he heard the owner proudly say the car ran very well although it was stumbling.
You need some time in the saddle.
Bob

[Tom Wesenberg]

You could rig a reostat to the spark lever and place a meter in series with it, then calibrate the meter face to read 0 to 40 as the reostat moves and causes the meter needle to sweep across the face. It would be much like a fuel gauge, as the float moves the reostat contact, the needle on the meter moves from one side to the other. Some work for nothing gained as I see it. As Marc said, just count the notches to figure the degrees. My notches are worn smooth, but I know half way down is 20 degrees.

[Hicktick]

The gauge you are looking for ,.are called Ears ,. turn your radio down the engine is playing you a tune ,.,

,.

.,

[James Rogers]

One thing I didn't mention is, if the timing is set correctly by Ford's original methods and all mechanical parts are up to original specs, the timing lever is a very good way to monitor timing from the cab.

[Simonpie]

Hard wired cameras (like back-up cams) are pretty cheap nowadays (maybe not for 6volt systems). A permanently mounted camera and strobe would let you do a timing check from the cab any time you wanted. It might be possible to watch funky oscillations at certain speeds due to loose timing gears or oil pump gear.

Don't forget to watch the road.

[aermotor]

I am going to retard my original question and ask this. Can a low compression engine like a model a be damaged by detonation? If so, I was looking for a way to avoid it with spark monitoring. I realize that fuel mixture will also cause detonation but one thing at a time for now. Aircraft engines can be destroyed by detonation with no human sensual recognition - granted the compression ratio is higher.

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by aermotor

I am going to retard my original question and ask this. Can a low compression engine like a model a be damaged by detonation? If so, I was looking for a way to avoid it with spark monitoring. I realize that fuel mixture will also cause detonation but one thing at a time for now. Aircraft engines can be destroyed by detonation with no human sensual recognition - granted the compression ratio is higher.

An engine can take quite a bit of detonation for a long time as long as its not severe [ there are 3 versions]. [Detonation is not to be confused with pre-ignition].
That said, its pretty hard to detonate an A engine, especially a stock A engine. I don't think it needs to be worried about. Just learn how to work that left lever.

[Rex_A_Lott]

Take a look at this thread:
http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170634

I never thought it was something we had to worry about either, but apparently I was wrong.
Good Luck

[wallster]

This is a good question. I'm in my early fifties and I've owned and worked on cars and motorcycles my entire life yet the simplistic model A isn't really that simplistic when you get in to timing, GAV adjusting, and learning how to shift them without trashing gears. If we want young enthusiasts to keep these cars the way they were designed (and from being chopped up and rodded) then all questions are good ones. I like the suggestion of physically timing the car and then making a mental note where the timing is from the lever.

Wally

[Tom Wesenberg]

I was riding with a guy that melted his piston tops and locked up his engine in one mile of driving. He or someone had the initial timing way too advanced, and when he filled with gas and saw the fuel gauge leaking he floored it to race home. A mile down the road his engine locked up. After it cooled down (and the gas leaked out) he was able to barely restart the engine and get home. All 4 pistons were melted near the top rings, and the skirts and ring lands were severely damaged. The babbit did survive.

[40 Deluxe]

I like Simonpie's idea! Aftermarket backup camera sets are cheap-$60-80 (I bought one on sale for $45 a few years ago). For a strobe, just mount a timing light on a bracket aimed at your timing pointer. Do a little math and mark the crank pulley in 2 deg. increments up to 40 deg. If you're still six volts, get a 12 V. motorcycle battery to run the camera and light.
Now as you drive and experiment with lever position you will have a reference point to work from. Before long you'll learn where to set the lever for varying conditions and use the camera less and less.