Because I feel bad about hijacking the 2 blade thread

[DaWizard]

After literally going through 30+ threads that come up with the "Fan" Search I am a bit troubled by the lack of where folks are taking the temp reading from on all these cool running cars with 2 and 4 blade fans that have not devoured themselves.

So, here is my question, and I hope to get each and everyone of you that use whatever temperature gauge you run, be it electric or thermo-mechanical to respond. Those that don't have an actual gauge, or run a Moto-meter type device need to mention that as well since it is a measurement of temp.

Please be specific. Does it take the temp from the Outlet of the head, or the Inlet to the block, and which method is it measured.

Thanks for all your help.

[RUNNERBUN]

I take my temperature from the outlet at the top end of the motor, which is the hottest point. I want to know how hot the engine is running. Taking the reading from the bottom of the radiator can be deceptive and will largely depend on the condition of the radiator. If the engine is running hot it could indicate that you may have one of several problems which will contribute to the high temp. Such as poor condition of the Radiator, a timing issue, brakes dragging and fuel mixture being incorrect to mention a few. Ambient temperature is also a factor to take into consideration.
Two Blade or four Blade? I don't think that is so important especially at normal highway driving. Air flow thru the radiator at highway driving speed is substantial and the engine is less dependant on the fan for cooling. Yes, a fan is most definately required while slow driving such as in a parade. Even at low speeds there is a Thermo syphon factor that comes into play. I have run my car with a two bladed fan, a four bladed fan and a plastic six bladed fan and did not notice any significant temperature difference between any of them.
MHO is that if you are experiencing over heating problems changing the fan will not fix your problem, you need to look elsewhere for the solution.
My car runs between 170-175 degrees F. and I live in the tropics. While climbing hills the temp does get up a bit but quickly falls again once on flat country.

[Kurt in NJ]

With the motormeter, 160 thermostat(era bi-metal butterfly valve in the hose) it will rarely get to the open circle on the motormeter, about 180, 190----taken at the block, and head with temp gun #4 runs cooler than #2 by 3 degrees checked just after 20 mile run at 50, when checked after idling for 30 min on 85 degree day # 4 was 5 degrees warmer than #2 at 195 ----original radiator cleaned 45 years ago, original late 31 2 style blade fan

with motormeter you get radiator temp, by sensing the "air" over the coolant the motormeter senses steam from the beginning of overheating faster than a block sensing system--submersed sensor----the first boiling is usually localized, before the coolant temp everywhere gets to boiling---that first puff of steam hits the motormeter first warning you the car is about to boil

[SeaSlugs]

If someone has access to a thermal imaging camera and has the time to swap out fans and has a very well running model A with a controlled route to drive around the same amount of time that would be the best end all discussion. Then we can "see" the heat.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by SeaSlugs

If someone has access to a thermal imaging camera and has the time to swap out fans and has a very well running model A with a controlled route to drive around the same amount of time that would be the best end all discussion. Then we can "see" the heat.

but im not doing that...i have more valuable, productive things to do with my time

[DJ S]

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That would be a good club project, maybe we'll try it in the spring.

[jhowes]

John Lavoy has done the tests, google it or contact him. The 2 blade does the job and looks correct so why worry about it.

[MAG]

Take a look at How To Restore Your Model A Vol 1 (the green one) page 98.
You will the results of tests made by Ed Rossig. It should answer all your questions about a Model A fan.

[DaWizard]

Well, this took a very wrong turn.

Is it really so hard to make a simple post, like "BW gauge in the upper neck, runs 175 to 190"?

I really don't want life stories or "opinions" on why and what for. I see all these posts on "this works best because I say so". I am NOT looking for that, I want to know the Facts.

This is simple, what do you use, where is it located, what are the temps.

[captndan]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

but im not doing that...i have more valuable, productive things to do with my time

^^^^^ Like driving your car and not worrying about it?

[captndan]

30 coupe with temp gauge in upper hose 185 deg. 4blade
31 Tudor with Motometer unknown never seen it register. 2blade

[tbirdtbird]

We cleaned the water jacket in my motor and Miles' using lye, and repeated flushing and more lye. Took a week. Also used a bowden cable sheath in a cordless drill to loosen stuff up especially behind Cyl #4.
When we were done, the water jacket looked like fresh grey cast iron.
The amount of crap I got out of each block was unbelieveable

His radiator is a new Brassworks, and mine has been recored.
We do not run thermostats. (story for another time). We have modern electric temp gauges (Equus) at the water outlet. These gauges have 180° sweep, which is way more accurate than the APCO which has very limited sweep.
On a hot summer day (90-100°) in the Texas summer we run between 140-160. In fact we have to use cardboard to block off some radiator so we can get to 180. We use the modern 2-blade fan.

None of the old timers who taught me Model As and Ts years and years ago ever complained about running hot when the cars first came out.

Today, many are running 80yo water jackets and 80 yo radiators, and dealing with the consequences.

Be certain your timing is not late. The old timers were very self-sufficient and got it dead on

You can draw your own conclusions.

And as far as the back story, without it, numbers alone have no meaning, since no 2 Model As are any longer the same as far as setup of motor, water jacket, and radiator.
The comparison you are looking for could only have been accurately done in 1928-1931 when everyone had the exact same thing.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Chief tapped for a temp gauge at the L/H side of the head, near the rear. That's the HOTTEST spot, & if you keep THAT temp under control, you probably WON'T harm your engine!
Bill W. (Chiefs' Son)

[Y-Blockhead]

TREND Instruments Gauge in upper neck, runs ~165°F. Reading ~60°F in picture.

[Cool Hand Lurker]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Chief tapped for a temp gauge at the L/H side of the head, near the rear. That's the HOTTEST spot, & if you keep THAT temp under control, you probably WON'T harm your engine!
Bill W. (Chiefs' Son)

Bill, you mentioned at one time that the precise location of the tapped hole was xxx" from the back of the head. Could you repeat that, please?

[C26Pinelake]

Tell us, how bad do you feel? Wayne

[denis4x4]

My electric fan comes on at 160 degrees and never runs over 180 degree.

[California Travieso]

"I really don't want life stories or "opinions" on why and what for. I see all these posts on "this works best because I say so". I am NOT looking for that, I want to know the Facts."


Dawizard,

If that's what your looking for you are on the wrong forum. You are going to get opinions plus "life stories" and that is what make this forum really interesting and informative.

David Serrano

[Mitch//pa]

Unless your a flat rate fan technician by the time they get swapped out the ambient / humid conditions will be different thus effecting your scientific experiment..
Along with that if one test is performed with the sun exposed and the other blocked by a cloud our infra red ray gun wont register the same

This test needs to be performed in a climate controlled wind tunnel where the exact conditions are duplicated.... maybe nascar will lend us one for our 40HP model A's

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Lurker

Bill, you mentioned at one time that the precise location of the tapped hole was xxx" from the back of the head. Could you repeat that, please?

Cool Hand,
I don't remember the dimensions of the exact spot. I have a center punch mark on Vermins' head, but I can't get out there to measure it.
Best to look inside an OLD head, for the spot. I wouldn't want to catch HELL, for advising WRONG (The Dog just put his ears DOWN, WAY DOWN)
Bill W.

[1931 flamingo]

Basically the only car and temps you should be worried about are YOURS. As long as you're not losing water and/or boiling over and under about 190 consistently you're GOOD. Most people with a temp gauge use the upper neck with tapped boss. Motometers are not reliable. BEST method to ck temp is with a point and shoot thermometer. JMO and FWIW.

Paul in CT

[DaWizard]

Thanks Paul, I have gathered that from the responses I have received.

I do have that outlet snout with my temp gauge sending unit attached and a hand held point and shoot thermometer.

[Cool Hand Lurker]

Originally Posted by forever4

We have a nice one!

The NASCAR boys probably have no use for a climate wind tunnel.

Vince, that is really COOL.....

[Cool Hand Lurker]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

but im not doing that...i have more valuable, productive things to do with my time

Kind of a mild slam, Mitch. But it got me to thinking, how much valuable time did it take to get over 10,000 posts on Fordbarn? Gotcha!

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Lurker

Vince, that is really COOL.....

I GET IT!!!! haha

What is that? impalla or malibu? All look the same nowadays...

[Mitch//pa]

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Originally Posted by Cool Hand Lurker

Kind of a mild slam, Mitch. But it got me to thinking, how much valuable time did it take to get over 10,000 posts on Fordbarn? Gotcha!

Hopefully along the way i helped someone out and it was not a complete waste of time..

If my postings bother you , ill try and post more

[b.j.]

i once asked a man what time it was>

he told me how to build a watch

[Pinesdune]

I have an early 28 sport coupe, 300 miles on a rebuilt engine, rexaco repop guage mounted in upper rad hose, car runs 190 at 45mph, completely stock gearing, stock 2 blade fan, and ignition timing checked with a timing light. Temp climbs to 200 plus climbing a steep 2 mile hill. She's running cooler and cooler as the miles pile on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cool Hand Lurker]

Originally Posted by denis4x4

My electric fan comes on at 160 degrees and never runs over 180 degree.

Denis, you got me curious... could you please post a photo of your water pump?

The other Dennis

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Lurker

Denis, you got me curious... could you please post a photo of your water pump?

The other Dennis

Ck post #6
https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=206917

[Cool Hand Lurker]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

Ck post #6
https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=206917

Was that really necessary? " (sarcastic)"
10,000 posts does not make anybody an expert and does not give them the right to slam other members. You have done that more than once in this thread alone. Maybe it is time you were reported?

My request for a water pump photo was to "denis4x4" and not you. Butt out.

[denis4x4]

Dennis (with two "n's") this is a 32-36 ford V8 pump. Finally had to replace it this year and ended up hogging out the adapter so that the impeller would spin freely. Chinese!!!

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Lurker

Was that really necessary? (sarcastic)

My request for a water pump photo was to "denis4x4" and not you. Butt out.

If you were looking for a private response it would be best to PM the individual, as posting it to a public forum its open game... (ROLLEYES) not sarcastic

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by denis4x4

Dennis (with two "n's") this is a 32-36 ford V8 pump. Finally had to replace it this year and ended up hogging out the adapter so that the impeller would spin freely. Chinese!!!

Denis, Is there an advantage to running a V-8 water pump? Just curious, from a third Dennis.

[tbirdtbird]

i did not know 1000 posts entitled false accusations

[Cool Hand Lurker]

Originally Posted by denis4x4

Dennis (with two "n's") this is a 32-36 ford V8 pump. Finally had to replace it this year and ended up hogging out the adapter so that the impeller would spin freely. Chinese!!!

Thank you. I am working on a modification to the stock Model A water pump to make it easier to remove with the radiator in place. Your method of locating the temp sender is a good idea. I was wondering how you handled the hose being so close to the radiator in a stock Model A, but I see that you had the freedom to relocate the radiator forward. It all gives me some ideas though. Thanks again.

[Cool Hand Lurker]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

i did not know 1000 posts entitled false accusations

It doesn't. Neither does 3054.

[mike657894]

use coolant then you can smell it when its hitting the ground. I dont see any cars with fan shrouds that would drop temp. if your car is overheating you probably have problems to be addressed.

[denis4x4]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

Denis, Is there an advantage to running a V-8 water pump? Just curious, from a third Dennis.

Basically it doesn't leak like an A pump! Too, it's easier to R&R.

[C26Pinelake]

[QUOTE=Cool Hand Lurker;1397492]Was that really necessary? " (sarcastic)"
10,000 posts does not make anybody an expert and does not give them the right to slam other members. You have done that more than once in this thread alone. Maybe it is time you were reported?

My request for a water pump photo was to "denis4x4" and not you. Butt out.[/QUOTE]

PM sent! Wayne

[Cool Hand Lurker]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Cool Hand,
I don't remember the dimensions of the exact spot. I have a center punch mark on Vermins' head, but I can't get out there to measure it.
Best to look inside an OLD head, for the spot. I wouldn't want to catch HELL, for advising WRONG (The Dog just put his ears DOWN, WAY DOWN)
Bill W.

Bill, I did a search and found the post from 2015 where you mentioned the location. Here it is. Thanks again!

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

#4 cylinder on Datsun 210's would get SO hot, valve seats fell out & usually scored #4 piston.
Temp gauges installed in Model A's should be in the rear of the head, to monitor the HOTTEST SPOT, "might" save an engine! ! Study the rear of a head for the SPOT to drill, in the left side, about 2 1/2" or so, from the rear of the head.
Chief ALWAYS located them there & he knew his SHIT, & he taught me all his TRICKS, that worked well.
Bill W.

[Cool Hand Lurker]

Originally Posted by forever4

Here is where it goes on a GAZ head.

Thanks Vince, you always come along and play the trump card!