The Ford Barn

oldmotorsguy · 09-23-2012, 02:47 PM

My low gear pedal on my 1919 Ford Touring, when depressed, has no effect on the low gear band. It appears that the notch and/or housing has worn down so much, it no longer has the cam effect required to compress the band.

I asked a pretty good Model T mechanic if I could remove and replace both of these parts simply through the inspection cover without removing the hogshead, and he said that it would be a good idea to remove the hogshead or risk 'cracking the cast iron.'

To me, it appears an easy operation, relatively speaking when it comes to Model T's at least, to simply remove the notch pin, pull the pedal out and remove the notch, unbolt the notch support piece from the outside, remove this and replace with fresh parts in the reverse order.

Am I nuts? Or is there something I am not seeing. I have yet to try this, because I don't want to risk 'cracking the cast iron.'

Any thoughts? I want to avoid removing the hogshead, because the only way I know how to do it without breaking my back is to jerk the engine.

Farmallcub49 · 09-23-2012, 03:52 PM

He was correct, it takes some force to remove that pin, even if you drill it out to relieve the pressure. You need to back it up as you drive the pin out and then you have to put a head either flat or rounded, back on the pin when you reinstall it. If those parts are that wore the pedal shaft must be wore and leaking oil, so you might as well pull the hogshead and rebuilt it all.

redmodelt · 09-23-2012, 03:57 PM

More likely then not you will have to drill the pin out. In ether case you need to have support under the casting when you drive the pin out. The replacement pin is rivited from both sides unless you use a rolled pin. How are you going to hold the bolt from the inside? Sounds like your "pretty good Model T mechanic" knows what he talking about.

oldmotorsguy · 09-23-2012, 05:39 PM

It appears my 'pretty good mechanic' is right: I have another hogshead with the pedal still attached. I tried to grind down the head of the pin, but it almost appears to have been welded, I can't see that driving the pin out while supporting the casting from underneath is an option. I will likely have to drill this pin out. And yes, there is a persistent oil leak from this pedal shaft. So that hogshead is coming out, whether I want it to or not. And that means the engine is also coming out.

What fun. Done it about 4 times now, and it gets more fun each time.

Susanne · 09-24-2012, 08:16 PM

Dumb question time - can't you pull your hogshead cover without pulling the motor? You have to pull the floorboards, but (unless I missed something unique to the later cars body style - it's been a while since I worked on a later car) you can pull this with the engine in the car. Just make sure you pull your starter bendix & Starter FIRST, otherwise you *will* have to pull your motor to replace your field coils...

John Otis · 09-25-2012, 05:08 PM

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Pull the hogshead and yes be sure to pull the bendix and starter very first thing. If that's the only thing bothering you that's fine. If you have a bunch of leaks I'd pop the engine out. Not really a big deal at all and you can address a ton of stuff when the engine is on the stand like mystery leaks. Never hurts to flip it over and take a peek at the bottom end. I have found lots of problems before they became problems this way. You may be amazed how little time it takes to have the engine free of the car where you can really work on it without killing yourself.

oldmotorsguy · 10-04-2012, 08:56 AM

John Otis is right: the effort involved in simply pulling the engine out versus removing the starter/bendix, and then surgically removing the hogshead through the passenger door only (no driver door on Touring's) is a no-brainer for me. That, plus the contortions required to work through only the passenger access on my beat up 57 1/2 year old body are just not in my plans anymore. Maybe when I was 30, I would think twice about yanking the engine, but I haven't found a reliable time machine anywhere locally that would make this a conversation topic.

And with the engine on a stand, the excellent access to all of the other little funky things that develop over time with a running engine really pays off.

09-23-2012, 02:47 PM	#1
oldmotorsguy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Crossville, Tennessee Posts: 157	Can I change low gear notch and housing easily? My low gear pedal on my 1919 Ford Touring, when depressed, has no effect on the low gear band. It appears that the notch and/or housing has worn down so much, it no longer has the cam effect required to compress the band. I asked a pretty good Model T mechanic if I could remove and replace both of these parts simply through the inspection cover without removing the hogshead, and he said that it would be a good idea to remove the hogshead or risk 'cracking the cast iron.' To me, it appears an easy operation, relatively speaking when it comes to Model T's at least, to simply remove the notch pin, pull the pedal out and remove the notch, unbolt the notch support piece from the outside, remove this and replace with fresh parts in the reverse order. Am I nuts? Or is there something I am not seeing. I have yet to try this, because I don't want to risk 'cracking the cast iron.' Any thoughts? I want to avoid removing the hogshead, because the only way I know how to do it without breaking my back is to jerk the engine.

09-23-2012, 03:52 PM	#2
Farmallcub49 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: St Joseph,MN Posts: 278	Re: Can I change low gear notch and housing easily? He was correct, it takes some force to remove that pin, even if you drill it out to relieve the pressure. You need to back it up as you drive the pin out and then you have to put a head either flat or rounded, back on the pin when you reinstall it. If those parts are that wore the pedal shaft must be wore and leaking oil, so you might as well pull the hogshead and rebuilt it all. __________________ 'OSO HANDY RESTORATIONS Specializing in Model T Fords 320-293-1953

09-23-2012, 03:57 PM	#3
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,344	Re: Can I change low gear notch and housing easily? More likely then not you will have to drill the pin out. In ether case you need to have support under the casting when you drive the pin out. The replacement pin is rivited from both sides unless you use a rolled pin. How are you going to hold the bolt from the inside? Sounds like your "pretty good Model T mechanic" knows what he talking about.

09-23-2012, 05:39 PM	#4
oldmotorsguy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Crossville, Tennessee Posts: 157	Re: Can I change low gear notch and housing easily? It appears my 'pretty good mechanic' is right: I have another hogshead with the pedal still attached. I tried to grind down the head of the pin, but it almost appears to have been welded, I can't see that driving the pin out while supporting the casting from underneath is an option. I will likely have to drill this pin out. And yes, there is a persistent oil leak from this pedal shaft. So that hogshead is coming out, whether I want it to or not. And that means the engine is also coming out. What fun. Done it about 4 times now, and it gets more fun each time.

09-24-2012, 08:16 PM	#5
Susanne Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 16	Re: Can I change low gear notch and housing easily? Dumb question time - can't you pull your hogshead cover without pulling the motor? You have to pull the floorboards, but (unless I missed something unique to the later cars body style - it's been a while since I worked on a later car) you can pull this with the engine in the car. Just make sure you pull your starter bendix & Starter FIRST, otherwise you will have to pull your motor to replace your field coils...

09-25-2012, 05:08 PM	#6
John Otis Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Vermont and Florida Posts: 188	Re: Can I change low gear notch and housing easily? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Pull the hogshead and yes be sure to pull the bendix and starter very first thing. If that's the only thing bothering you that's fine. If you have a bunch of leaks I'd pop the engine out. Not really a big deal at all and you can address a ton of stuff when the engine is on the stand like mystery leaks. Never hurts to flip it over and take a peek at the bottom end. I have found lots of problems before they became problems this way. You may be amazed how little time it takes to have the engine free of the car where you can really work on it without killing yourself.

10-04-2012, 08:56 AM	#7
oldmotorsguy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Crossville, Tennessee Posts: 157	Re: Can I change low gear notch and housing easily? John Otis is right: the effort involved in simply pulling the engine out versus removing the starter/bendix, and then surgically removing the hogshead through the passenger door only (no driver door on Touring's) is a no-brainer for me. That, plus the contortions required to work through only the passenger access on my beat up 57 1/2 year old body are just not in my plans anymore. Maybe when I was 30, I would think twice about yanking the engine, but I haven't found a reliable time machine anywhere locally that would make this a conversation topic. And with the engine on a stand, the excellent access to all of the other little funky things that develop over time with a running engine really pays off.