TOD'S head/block Q..

[hardtimes]

I've been talking to Tod, about the idea of his accepting deposits on his head/block making program/project. IMO, he won't ask. The idea is to 'move the program along faster' to fruition/finished products for US.

To the foundrys, money talks, and you know the rest,eh ! Even Tod, with all his contacts, cannot get quicker foundry consideration unless he can show them the money.

So, just to see how others, who are interested and probable buyers of Tod's products, view the idea of making deposits, I'm asking the question.

Please stay on subject...would you give a deposit for your choice of product or think that it's is not a good idea and why ?

[Hotrodfil]

Possibly some sort of escrow agreement may be a solution? It'd stop me spending the money in the meantime on other projects!

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Hotrodfil

Possibly some sort of escrow agreement may be a solution? It'd stop me spending the money in the meantime on other projects!

Yup, such ideas are welcomed, as I not versed in this. Only trying to get others, like you involved for possible common good. Thanks !

[Tod]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

I've been talking to Tod, about the idea of his accepting deposits on his head/block making program/project. IMO, he won't ask. The idea is to 'move the program along faster' to fruition/finished products for US.

To the foundrys, money talks, and you know the rest,eh ! Even Tod, with all his contacts, cannot get quicker foundry consideration unless he can show them the money.

So, just to see how others, who are interested and probable buyers of Tod's products, view the idea of making deposits, I'm asking the question.

Please stay on subject...would you give a deposit for your choice of product or think that it's is not a good idea and why ?

Um, yeah. Not only have I not asked, but I have refused deposits, having learned from the past that depositors are usually not aware of the industry obstacles that crop up and cause delays. I have taken deposits on my Cleveland project and sent some back because people either didn't like the wait time or they said things publicly that irritated me, for the comments cast me in a bad light when the reason for delays have always been beyond my control. Even simple parts, like heads, can have delays. The main problem with deposits is people always ask for time-frames and the best I can do is tell them what I am told by my suppliers. If the suppliers don't hit their targets it is ME that looks like the liar, when in fact there is nothing I can do about it.

I am making more blocks and am also having a friend quote machining to make sure volume can be met. Suppose, though, that our machines have issues. And they will. That slows flow down. Still, people (some) will be upset about delays. Until the production is profitable enough for me to have stock on the shelf there will be growing pains. I have endured this with other block projects and really don't want to see it with this one, and that is one reason I have stayed away from taking deposits.

Recently, with my Cleveland project, a buyer sent a deposit and I machined his block, only to find a few casting flaws that made it unusable for his application (but good for another buyer who stepped in to take it). I started making him another block when he decided he wanted to go a different direction and wanted his deposit back for use on a different kind of block. Normally, that would not bother me, except that I was deep into his order with 2 blocks and all the machining, which time and money I could have spent on someone else. Fortunately, there are buyers for everything I make and if someone pulls out like that, there is always someone else ready to jump into the vacated space. But, it is just a hassle to change directions and plans and customers in the middle of filling an order.

Hopefully, I stayed on the topic. But Rick is right in one regard, telling a foundry that I have "X" orders and deposits to make castings, is probably something that might help their focus, but it hasn't proved to be absolutely true in the past. What they really like is very easy castings that have better margins and less likelihood of scrap. Business is all about ease of cash-flow.

I will keep an eye on this thread and try to answer any questions that involve me.

Tod

[colin1928]

I personally would have no problem giving Tod a deposit or even full payment I know his rep though other sources than A model stuff and it is AAA
I think it is a good idea and will give a true indication of real numbers
Colin

[Jonnyenglish]

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Totally understand what Tod is saying, but I would be happy to give a deposit for a Head, and know I will have to wait (I assume we are talking months not years..). It would be nice to officially get on the list for one, that way I know I will be getting one.

[waxhead]

I am also willing to pay a deposit to officially get my name on the list for the head. I don't want to miss out.

[C26Pinelake]

Do we have an absolute finished price ?
Wayne

[Tod]

Originally Posted by colin1928

I personally would have no problem giving Tod a deposit or even full payment I know his rep though other sources than A model stuff and it is AAA
I think it is a good idea and will give a true indication of real numbers
Colin

I didn't think of that. If I'm only going to be able to sell 50 or a hundred of these then I have been wasting my time up till now and shouldn't bother with it further. But several people think these will sell in the hundreds. Some people are sure to wait until they see blocks in action (as though I haven't done this before) and/or wait to buy from Snyder.

Tod

[Tod]

Originally Posted by C26Pinelake

Do we have an absolute finished price ?
Wayne

We have discussed this some in the past and right now all I can do is give rough estimates. I buy castings and then do basic machining, as I did with the FE blocks and what I am doing with the Cleveland blocks. From there a builder will need to finish the bores, deck, cam, and crank. That allows for machining from me that can be used for babbitt or finished out to accept inserts. The idea is to keep the blocks as far under 3k as possible. My target for ready-to-build blocks is 2500.00.

If I were actually asking for deposits I usually look to cover casting cost and, as in the case of my Clevelands, some of the machining time. In the case of the A block it would be something like 5-700 dollars.

I have only spoken with a couple of builders about finish machining, so if any of you builders want to discuss YOUR ideas on finish cost, please email me and we can discuss it privately. I am spending almost no time at all on line right now so we will have to do it when time allows.

[email protected]

Tod

[CWPASADENA]

I definitely think they will sell in the hundreds. It is getting harder and harder to build a good quality engine. There is so much work required to get the old blocks in a condition where you can put together something that should give you good life. However, we are still dealing with 80 + year old stuff that can have problems that can not be foreseen.

Just let me know how much to make the check out for and where to send it. I am ready for a "new" engine and know several others that would also be ready to buy.

Chris W.

[Tod]

For those of you interested in getting in line right now for the first blocks or heads, PM me and we can work out the details. I set up a separate bank account just for the block and heads so things won't get mixed in with everyday banking.

I was at the foundry today going over some ideas with them and also discussing machining at my friend's machine shop. I just may farm out all the machining to his place so I can just do the things I am doing right now.

Tod

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by CWPASADENA

I definitely think they will sell in the hundreds. It is getting harder and harder to build a good quality engine. There is so much work required to get the old blocks in a condition where you can put together something that should give you good life. However, we are still dealing with 80 + year old stuff that can have problems that can not be foreseen.

Just let me know how much to make the check out for and where to send it. I am ready for a "new" engine and know several others that would also be ready to buy.

Chris W.

Hey Chris,
AND all of you guys who have positively responded !
I've talked Tod into putting me in line for head and block ...WITH DEPOSIT (s) on both block and on head !
This means that he is , for sure , taking deposits and making a list which will place those with deposits first on list for product. I've given specific request , i.e.- in my case, Winfield 8:1 IRON head, and 5x5 B block !.

I know/realize that the product will be several months or more in coming, but if heaven can wait and the creek doesn't rise...I'll be in a good place,eh ! Anyway, just trying to help 'things' along.

BTW, Can any of you guys spread this word over to the HAMB, as I'm computer challenged and can not figure the new hamb. Thanks.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey Chris,
AND all of you guys who have positively responded !
I've talked Tod into putting me in line for head and block ...WITH DEPOSIT (s) on both block and on head !
This means that he is , for sure , taking deposits and making a list which will place those with deposits first on list for product. I've given specific request , i.e.- in my case, Winfield 8:1 IRON head, and 5x5 B block !.

I know/realize that the product will be several months or more in coming, but if heaven can wait and the creek doesn't rise...I'll be in a good place,eh ! Anyway, just trying to help 'things' along.

BTW, Can any of you guys spread this word over to the HAMB, as I'm computer challenged and can not figure the new hamb. Thanks.

Well, I'll take YOUR deposit because it has to start somewhere and you won't quit badgering me . Seriously though, I appreciate all the discussion with Rick and his direction is the next step in the development of this project. This will keep me focused on moving ahead with the 5x5. The head is already pretty far along, so that is not an issue.

Tod

[waxhead]

PM sent

[AL in NY]

Hardtimes: What is a "5x5 B block?

[kelley's restoration]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

Hardtimes: What is a "5x5 B block?

just a guess
5 mains
5 cam bearings
tk

[Tod]

Originally Posted by kelley's restoration

just a guess
5 mains
5 cam bearings
tk

That's how I've been taking it.

Tod

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

Hardtimes: What is a "5x5 B block?

Hey Al,
Well, Tod is going to be very busy IMO, making various shades of A and B blocks for customers. The 'pick of the litter' for me is the 5 mains and 5 cam bearing B block. You are going to have to tell him what it is that you prefer him put you down for ..that is ..what configuration of A/B block. My choice is pretty easy to describe as a 5x5 B configuration. My choice of words to describe, but pretty definite description as to what I want too,eh

BTW...If you don't think that Tod will be busy with supplying NEW blocks, take another look at the guys who have already said 'yes' to deposits. These Barners are by and large...our buddies from other countries ! Now these guys IMO , are serious (think shipping rates ), and there are LOTS of them over the earth. But, there are thousands here who, have wait/see attitude , that will want a proven new block. I'll show them mine,eh

[AL in NY]

Hardtimes, where are going to get the crankshaft from for the 5 main bearing B engine? And at what cost?

[Juggler]

Will the decks on the B blocks be a little thicker?

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Juggler

Will the decks on the B blocks be a little thicker?

Yep. I'm planning some ribbing also.

Tod

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

Hardtimes, where are going to get the crankshaft from for the 5 main bearing B engine? And at what cost?

My thought exactly!

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

Hardtimes, where are going to get the crankshaft from for the 5 main bearing B engine? And at what cost?

Hey Al,
Good questions !
There are guys/resources with us here who know the answers/specifics of this question. What I've learned from these guys, is that there are a number of sources for 5 main cranks. And, 5 bearing cams are already available for A/B blocks.
As to the cost of these 5 main cranks, I also heard from guys here in the know (the have made such purchases)...they AIN'T CHEAP...whhaaaah !
I may have to sit on my new block..till it hatches, or till I save $ to build it.
I see selling off A/B stuff to get NEW and better A/B stuff ! Some VERY talented guys here who probably will make their own crank. IMO, also a real source of information on where/who to buy from, is the 4ever4 guys and FAST old timers ! Know any of those !

Wish I knew machining, as a talented hobbyist could maybe may a good paying business doing these cranks ..no ?
Maybe, a Mr. Dan Eubanks could be talked into coming out of retirement...lol
I've got one of his new B cranks in my Russian B for ten yrs now. Great stuff , indeed!

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

5 bearing cams are already available for A/B blocks.

I'd have to look to be sure, but I think the IB330 cam I got from Bill Stipe has the 5 bearing journals on it already. I know it has the fuel pump boss on it.

[hardtimes]

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Originally Posted by CarlG

I'd have to look to be sure, but I think the IB330 cam I got from Bill Stipe has the 5 bearing journals on it already. I know it has the fuel pump boss on it.

Hey Carl,
Would you check and let us know, with maybe a pic !
Bill is going to quit soon and if what you say is so, I'd like to have one of HIS 5 bearing cams. Is the IB 330 stock grind or little more than ?

[quickchange]

We in kiwi land have nealy finished our 5 main B crank , Todate has been machined, destresed, ground to size, nex is to drill for 6 flywheel bolts , then its away to get nitrated, turned from billet Pictures will be posted with cost once completed. But it won,t be cheep however with exchange rate it could be viable . Who makes a B crank 3 or 5 mains now, Derek in a sunny spring NZ

[johnneilson]

This might be something like what you are looking for.

[quickchange]

John , Thats heaven , loan it too me ??