3D CAD Model of Model A Ford Engine Block - HELP!

[JamieMorgan]

Hello everyone. I am 15 years old and a freshman in high school. I received a 3D CAD modeling software for my birthday last summer and would like to create a detailed 3D computer model of the Model A Ford engine block to start with and then add parts from there. Unfortunately I do not have access to an engine block. I tried to find blueprints on the internet, but it appears they are not available. Is there anyone here that has a bare Model A block that would be willing to feed me accurate dimensions?

I was given this information by a guy in England, but I have lost contact with him and have no way of verifying if any of it is correct.

Anyone here willing to help? Thanks Jamie

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Jamie, I can help you, -just not today as we are crippled under 9" of snow here and I cannot get to the shop. If you will e-mail me thru the contact us page, I will send you some drawing images and we can exchange .dwg files (Solidworks) if you like.

[oldbike99]

What a great project. I am looking forward to updates.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by oldbike99

What a great project. I am looking forward to updates.

I cannot agree more.

[mshmodela]

Awesome!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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Jamie, I sent the files you are asking for to your e-mail address.

[JamieMorgan]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Jamie, I sent the files you are asking for to your e-mail address.

Today is Christmas and you Brent are Santa Claus. You have made this project much easier. Thank you.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Well then, have a Merry Christmas!! Just remember those Elves said to share the toys (files)!!!

[sethkestenbaum]

When 3-d cast iron printing becomes an option and your CAD files are utilized, please sign me up for a block. Before anyone else on Fordbarn says it, I call dibs on the first perfect new engine and request it be stamped "#1". Too late you guys, the "dibs" is now official!

[davehc]

And who says the younger generation isn't interested in this hobby of "A's" ? Looks like a good start . Also looking forward to updates .

[briphaeton]

I noticed the distributor hole is off on Jamie's drawing. The drawing I have is also off.
I'm surprised that Jamie's drawings the datum's are off the side of the block instead of a center line or something more accurate?
Brian

[JamieMorgan]

Originally Posted by briphaeton

I noticed the distributor hole is off on Jamie's drawing. The drawing I have is also off.
I'm surprised that Jamie's drawings the datum's are off the side of the block instead of a center line or something more accurate?
Brian

Hi Brian

I am referencing everything off the center line of the crank and the center line of the cylinder bore which are 0.125" offset from each other.

I was given that drawing and don't know it's original source. I'm drawing the top of the block now and if the top is an exact 7.8125" wide, I get 0.827-0.829" from the edge. I'm drawing it as 0.828". Is that anywhere close to what you have?

It appears to have a reamed bore of 0.9365-0.9375" all the way from the top of the bottom area to the bottom of the block. It shows a chamfer at the bottom, but raw casting at the top in the cross section. Is the top chamfered the same as the bottom?

Thanks Jamie

[johnneilson]

Jamie,

My old drawings don't show the CL of the dist hole.
The cam is 3.000 CL from crank, cam OD is theo Ø1.560
The root of the dist drive gear is approx. Ø.660
So, dist hole must be close to 4.110 from crank CL

I know that the crank main bolt holes are drilled very early in the block machining sequence and are used pretty much as a locator for the rest of the machining.

Best of luck, John

[tbirdtbird]

so how are things in sunny Burbank?

[johnneilson]

looking good, expecting some liquid sunshine here over the next couple days.

[briphaeton]

Hi Jamie
I just measured my B block and I got 7.846 (rear) 7.838 (front) across. I also check my A block 7.830 (rear) and 7.815 (front). So you can see it varies from block to block. The top distributor hole is not chamfered. I picked up a head that needs drilling so I've been playing with the numbers. I also took a solid works class several years ago(2007). Thank you John and Jamie for your help. I have several other engine but these are the two I'm now working on. The B block is interesting because of the lines and other markings on the deck. Al Hubbard 25 years ago commented about them besides not being cracked. The block has never been decked and the bore cleaned up at .030 over, never the mains have never been rebabbitted. Has been a great runner for the last 25 years and a lot of miles.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by briphaeton

Hi Jamie
I just measured my B block and I got 7.846 (rear) 7.838 (front) across. I also check my A block 7.830 (rear) and 7.815 (front). So you can see it varies from block to block. The top distributor hole is not chamfered. I picked up a head that needs drilling so I've been playing with the numbers. I also took a solid works class several years ago(2007). Thank you John and Jamie for your help. I have several other engine but these are the two I'm now working on. The B block is interesting because of the lines and other markings on the deck. Al Hubbard 25 years ago commented about them besides not being cracked. The block has never been decked and the bore cleaned up at .030 over, never the mains have never been rebabbitted. Has been a great runner for the last 25 years and a lot of miles.

Question, ....are you thinking it would be better to 'reverse-engineer' from a used block to make his drawings, --or use the factory blueprints that have the engineer's specific dimensions listed on it?

.

.

[johnneilson]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Question, ....are you thinking it would be better to 'reverse-engineer' from a used block to make his drawings, --or use the factory blueprints that have the engineer's specific dimensions listed on it?

.

.

Brent,

I have used copies of the original prints for dimensions and can tell you that they are very accurate.
The drawings are not very clear and you have to work at it.

BTW, just for clarity, it is never a good idea to use an exterior surface for a dimension datum, never. As I stated before, the main bearing cap bolt holes are very good datum.

It is also a very big mistake to use a cad file from a unknown source or one that cannot be validated. I have done enough work in design to have a very skeptic view of non-dimensioned cad files as a sole source of information. (attempting to add in dimensions later).

John

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

I agree John. I sent Jamie copies of the factory prints from Bensen that are very clear.

[Al 29Tudor]

Way to go Jamie! Solid modeling is the way to go.
If I may, I'd like to point out a few things that are required to reduce tolerance buildup.
All features must be taken from either one vertical or one horizontal datum line so they can relate to each other with one tolerance from the datum.
Usually no three place dimensions from the edge of a cast part.
One of the four dimensions across the top of the model must be a reference dimension.
Jamie you are ahead of the curve. Nice going.
Al Leach

[JamieMorgan]

Here is what I did last night. No dimensions yet, just trying to get it all sorted out. The blueprint has a lot of information, but it is scattered all over. Very big puzzle on small computer screen. My dad is having it printed out so I can hang it on my wall. This should make it easier to see all at once. I'm confused on the bore. The blueprint shows 3.054" bore while written specs I found show 3 7/8". The plans have extra holes I don't see in photos. And there are 4 threaded holes that don't have dimensioned locations or I haven't found the locations yet.

[briphaeton]

The threaded hole are centered on the 3.875 bore and 4.5625 away. The small holes are steam holes that go into the water jacket and the other are only 2 on the outside of the bores (photo is correct).

[johnneilson]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

I agree John. I sent Jamie copies of the factory prints from Bensen that are very clear.

Brent,

Would you mind sharing another set?

Thanks, John

[Mike V. Florida]

Jamie, You should also look here as there was not just one block style made.

http://www.plucks329s.org/40hb.htm

[JamieMorgan]

Originally Posted by briphaeton

The threaded hole are centered on the 3.875 bore and 4.5625 away. The small holes are steam holes that go into the water jacket and the other are only 2 on the outside of the bores (photo is correct).

Thanks briphaeton. The blueprint bore is so small that the outer casting is smaller than the 3 7/8" bore. I'll need to come up with a way to figure out what the casting thickness is around the cylinder bores.

Does anyone have a really good photo of the bottom and timing cover end of a bare block? Couple of details are a little fuzzy.

Thanks Mike for the links. Every little bit helps.