6 Volts versus 12

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by RonC

How many NIGHTIME hours can you get without a generator charging using 50cp headlights and 2 10cp tail lights?

When I was in college, going "home" for a weekend or holdiay, the generator went out on my 52 merc, after dark of course. Nursing it along by going without head lights - just tail lights - where I could (by tailgating an 18-wheeler) and stopping once to get a quick charge at a "service station". Probably close to 300 miles -- 6 hours. Was still running when I got to my folks house.

[rickmass]

Qustion I have a 6 volts system an don,t have dash instruments so where do you get this stuff like 6 volt light,s an stuff.Rick

[JBill]

Alternators "stress" the waterpump? Why any more than a generator?

[Michael in Sedona]

I took a perfectly good restored '29 Tudor and converted it to 12V because I was a newbie and was worried that a 6V battery would be hard to jump start. I went the whole route and installed an alternator and electronic ignition.

Then I got a '29 Roadster and left it all original 6V (except that it came with an alternator).

I honestly can't tell any difference between the 2 cars. They both run great and have given me little trouble.

[Colorado Greg]

Originally Posted by JBill

Alternators "stress" the waterpump? Why any more than a generator?

An alternator will stress the water pump because you have to run it with the fan belt alot tighter than with a generator.

[Kurt in NJ]

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Out of curiosity I jus tstopped at my local NAPA, asked if they had this 50$ alternator like used in the model A, --a 1 wire alternator,12V, --it's not listed under modelA, they don't have a 1 wire alternator listing, the standard 73 chevy alternator is 105$ ---so what 50$ alternator do you ask for when you go into "any" auto parts store??

I can understand the need to be able to get parts for your modified A at any parts store, my 74 Chevy has needed alternator repairs 3 times in the 35 years I have had it, in the 42 years I have had the A I have repaired the generator 1 time, that was on the first drive, and it was due to using a repro cutout that failed open.

As for how long can you run 50cp bulbs or seal beams without charging depends on how good your battery is, and it's state of charge at the start of the "test", I do know it will be less time than if you are using the 35 watt direct fit Halogen bulbs, my car had sealbeams whenI got it, then I had 50cp bulbs, I would need a 18+ amp charge rate to have them bright enough to see, and still had a - charge rate with them on, when I put in the halogen bulbs I cut back the charge rate to 14-15 amps, and have a +1 amp charge with the halogen bulbs and 2 tail lights.

I would rather have a reliable original car than have to worry about planning my trips around the locations of the NAPA and other auto parts stores to keep replacing the "modern" improvements.

What alternator do you ask for at "any" parts store?

[JBohannon]

It seems one of these post says you can switch to a 12V battery without changing the starter. Is that correct?

[Purdy Swoft]

I've said this many, many, many times, so believe it or not!!!!!!! You can have a very dependable 12 volt system on the model A with the UNMODIFIED model A generator and starter. No wires have to be changed or reversed and the system can remain positive ground. The generator, starter and wiring will have a cooler easy life on half the amps and twice the cranking and reserve power. You get all the advantage of 12 volt with none of the disadvantage of the long obsolete six volt system. I use improvements like the Fun Projects can style regulator, modern starter drive. Pertronix flamethrower coil,generator cooler band and fuse mount on the starter switch. None of these improvements are manditory, its a personal choice that I would also use if running six volts. As has been said, a good model A generator or starter could last a lifetime. If I was to have problems with the generator, I can repair it, not so with an alternator. I don't think that you can easily find a one wire alternator on the road with the correct width pulley. You can buy six volt bulbs with the same candle power as 12 volt but they cost more and the more powerful quartz halogen bulbs draw more amps.

Nothing compells me to change over to 12 volts, its a personal choice and makes good sence to me. Twelve volts will make the model A easier to crank for my girls ,even if they over choke or forget the spark. Twelve volt components are always easy to find and usually cost MUCH less. The car can remain mostly original if done in this manner and you can't see the battery, under the floor boards. When the six volt battery gets a little weak, they usually won't have the power to run the starter and fire the points at the same time.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by JBohannon

It seems one of these post says you can switch to a 12V battery without changing the starter. Is that correct?

Yes, but it's advisable to change the Bendix to the new heavy duty style.

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by CarlG

Yes, but it's advisable to change the Bendix to the new heavy duty style.

I agree 100%. It is best to use the modern starter drive no matter what the voltage. the old bendix drive is liable to drop a bolt or bend a spring if not properly tightened or if the spark isn't retarded when cranking, no matter if you are still running six volt.

[Lawrie]

Are the new starter drives better now,I had one on my A and it exploded. went back to the old drive,quite and no problems .
Lawrie

[Purdy Swoft]

I have been useing the modern starter drives from Snyders on two of my cars for six years with no problems. Both of these cars have new flywheel ring gears. My roadster is running 12 volts with original 6 volt starter with the Snyder modern starter drive. I think that there is more than one manufacturer of the modern starter drive. My 31 tudor is running the original style bendix and about every two years I have to remove the starter and clean the oily residue and clutch dust from the helix, or the starter will just spin. I don't really know where the oily residue comes from because the engine was professionally rebuilt and doesn't use or leak oil. The next time that it happens I plant to replace it with a modern drive to end the problem.

[Milton]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

Out of curiosity I jus tstopped at my local NAPA, asked if they had this 50$ alternator like used in the model A, --a 1 wire alternator,12V, --it's not listed under modelA, they don't have a 1 wire alternator listing, the standard 73 chevy alternator is 105$ ---so what 50$ alternator do you ask for when you go into "any" auto parts store??

There I go again, taking a personal experience and assuming it is the norm. Actually it was $59.38 plus the core charge. Since I pulled it in the parking lot there was no core charge and they swapped the pulley for free and my buyer points card got a $20 dollar discount for a total of $29.59 including tax. You can do the same at "any" Autozone.

"I can understand the need to be able to get parts for your modified A at any parts store, my 74 Chevy has needed alternator repairs 3 times in the 35 years I have had it, in the 42 years I have had the A I have repaired the generator 1 time, that was on the first drive, and it was due to using a repro cutout that failed open."

You know that is an interesting, albeit meaningless, comparison. How many miles were put on the Chevy vs. the Ford? That comparison would be a little more meaningful wouldn't you say? I can state that I have only had one problem with an alternator on my A!!! Oh, I didn't mention that I got the A in 2010 with the alternator already installed.

"I would rather have a reliable original car than have to worry about planning my trips around the locations of the NAPA and other auto parts stores to keep replacing the "modern" improvements."

You know, I just don't plan my trips around where the Autozones are, they just happen to be there.

"What alternator do you ask for at "any" parts store? "

An AC Delco 60 amp alternator.

[Kurt in NJ]

What alternator do you ask for ---they don't have it listed under "modelA", if you ask for a 1 wire alternator they reply--- what car is it for??

[Milton]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

What alternator do you ask for ---they don't have it listed under "modelA", if you ask for a 1 wire alternator they reply--- what car is it for??

Whereupon I answer, "a Chevy".

Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras

BTW, do you have any idea how many DAYTIME running hours you can get on a Model A without a generator? When I was a kid I probably did a good six hours on the road.

I have done the same and I imagine it is approximately the same for 12 volts however, this wasn't an electrical failure, it was a front bearing and I don't like nursing the car along in that situation if it can be avoided.

Originally Posted by Colorado Greg

An alternator will stress the water pump because you have to run it with the fan belt alot tighter than with a generator.

I don't run my belt any tighter than with a generator and the alternator charges properly. The smaller pulley to compensate for the rpm, and the larger V belt along with the lack of any electrical load (AC, fan, etc), seem to make up for the difference. The water pump has updated bearings besides.

[Dick Carne]

Over the years I've used generators, 6 and 12-volt alternators. But at least for me, and after almost 50 years of playing with these old cars, I prefer the 12 volt alternator and electrical system. At night with a 6-volt system, I noticed that the lights would dim while waiting at traffic lights and stop signs, not to the point of "going dark", but enough that it was noticeable to me unless I ran the RPM's up instead of the standard idle. And while I am not as concerned with my ability to see long distances (over-driving your lights), I am concerned with other cars' ability to see me.

As has also been noted, a less than good ground is not as noticeable with a 12-volt system. As a side benefit, the faster spinning starter usually means that the engine starts with just a fraction of the starting time, often just a touch once the car is warm. That being said, either system will work fine if you have good connections and maintain your electrical system - the 12 volt system just allows more latitude. Just my opinion though.

[Kurt in NJ]

The first thing I noticed when I installed the direct fit 6V halogen bulbs was the lack of change in the light between idle (no charging) and driving, they are bright all the time.

I thought the "1" wire alternators were used in conversions---the standard chevy alternator needs the 2 plug in wires along with the heavy battery wire to make the regulator work

[Tom Wesenberg]

I have never changed a 6 volt car to a 12 volt system and have never seen a need to do so. I've also never had a generator failure on any 6 volt or 12 volt car. Corvair used a 12 volt generator until 1965, and they work great. My 1950 Studebaker was my daily driver for the 3 years I was in the Army and it's 6 volt system had the best headlights I can remember of all my cars. My Model A is 6 volts with a powerhouse generator with my EVR installed and the amp guage is not in the negative while waiting at a stop light. My single taillight really lights up the road behind me. It's amazing how much light comes through those red and clear lenses.

[Jordan]

If you're running an alternator (this can be applied to generators as well) you should not over tighten the belt. If you can't move the fan by hand with the belt tightened down, then it's too tight. This will not put the stress on the water pump to cause bearing failure.