Body shims

[Lenny Bruce]

Hey guys exciting news the wife and I just picked up a 1930 Sport Coupe to keep our ‘30 Tudor company LOL. My question is I see the doors don’t fit any to the body on the bottom. I also see someone put rubber Shims under the body in the front right and left corners. Can that be why the doors aren’t right? Also the hood alignment is off as well. Just putting my feelers out. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

[Oldbluoval]

The hood alignment can be shims and/or sagging frame.
Is door alignment from top to bottom or meeting the latch pillar? Do the reveals match up on door with body?
If from top to bottom….the door can be tweaked a small amount to fit.
I’ve often seen door gap not matching up and down to body.

[Lenny Bruce]

Below the bottom hinges the door just about touches the cowl. From the door handle down it starts to separate and gap quite a bit down to the bottom corner of the door

[Lenny Bruce]

The reveals do match up

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Lenny, to begin with, Ford assembly workers did not use ‘shims’ originally. They were not needed as the body blocks and the single woven pad were of the correct thickness and the doors were properly aligned when the body was put together. In the modern era of ‘restoration’, often times shims are used as a way to try to compensate for a component/components that were not restored to factory specifications originally. So as Bill is saying, a bent frame, incorrectly sized body blocks, bent door hinges, incorrect thickness cowl anti-squeak, reproduction hood, etc., etc. can be the culprit. Generally speaking, having someone who is knowledgeable and versed on aligning sheetmetal on these cars is the best way as it can be very timely for someone who is inexperienced in that area. Do you have an experienced restorer in your area that can assist you??

Based on a quick guess, my thoughts are worn or damaged door hinges first, followed by a damaged frame?

[Lenny Bruce]

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I unfortunately do not have any professional near by but do have some knowledgeable fellas that may be able to help out. The hinges seem nice and tight and the body lines line up. Definitely time to start crawling around this car with some extra eyes and attention detail.
Thanks guys!

[ArtimusGordon]

Maybe you should remove ALL body blocks and shims and see how the body alignment sits. Checking body blocks to make sure they are correct! You might have FRAME issues. Not difficult to do BUT gives you aGREAT starting point! Just thinking.

[Lenny Bruce]

Not a bad idea for sure thanks

[Lenny Bruce]

The car is in fantastic condition doesn’t mean theirs no issues with the frame but hopefully it’s just some rearranging

[CT Jack]

The door alignment is relative to the body structure not the main frame. The front shims between the frame and the body are used to fine align the hood angle or alignment relative to the radiator shell. If the body sub-rail is rusted away or has been replaced incorrectly this could affect the door alignment and/or excessive gaps.

[gdmn852]

I had repro body blocks that were thicker than the original? ones they replaced,had to cut them down to match the old ones to get body lined up again and also to fit inside the sub frame.Doors on roadster are notorious for bowing out at bottom usually corrected with shimming and door bending,carefully.

[gdmn852]

Also after replacing the hinge pins and repair of the hinges.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by gdmn852

Doors on roadster are notorious for bowing out at bottom usually corrected with shimming and door bending, carefully.

I was told by some knowledgable body men that the main reason Roasters and Phaetons door bow out at the bottom is people pulling on the body door jam to assist entry into the car. Over time this pulls the top of the body out, not allowing the bottom of the door to close all the way at the bottom.

But this shouldn't be an issue with a coupe.

[john in illinois]

How a bout pictures of the gap. You would get more detailed advice.


John

[Karl Wescott]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Lenny, to begin with, Ford assembly workers did not use ‘shims’ originally. They were not needed as the body blocks and the single woven pad were of the correct thickness and the doors were properly aligned when the body was put together. In the modern era of ‘restoration’, often times shims are used as a way to try to compensate for a component/components that were not restored to factory specifications originally. So as Bill is saying, a bent frame, incorrectly sized body blocks, bent door hinges, incorrect thickness cowl anti-squeak, reproduction hood, etc., etc. can be the culprit. Generally speaking, having someone who is knowledgeable and versed on aligning sheetmetal on these cars is the best way as it can be very timely for someone who is inexperienced in that area. Do you have an experienced restorer in your area that can assist you??

Based on a quick guess, my thoughts are worn or damaged door hinges first, followed by a damaged frame?

And the door hinges are possibly the easiest to rule out! With the door open slightly lift the door at the bottom, If there is enough vertical play to put the door into alignment... hinge problem. And that could be as simple as loose screws. Then check the gap (on the inside of the car) of the door to the cowl, If there is a tapered gap wider at the top... improperly bent hinges.


Given that there are rubber shims suggests multiple problems... First a rubber "shim" is a bad idea as it is too moldable and alignment can change. (This is opposed one stock rubberized cloth pad which helps with vibration dampening.) Something with the body and/or frame is likely wrong and there was an ineffective attempt to patch (as opposed to fix) it.

[rotorwrench]

The Sport Coupes are some what like an open car. They used wood in the top and some steel bracing in there to hold the B pillars and the top bow distances from the center line of the body out to the edge of the B-pillars. If the pillars are too far to the outside at the top then the door will make contact at the window frame top first and the door bottoms will have a pretty good gap between them and the body. I had this problem on my 29 Sport Coupe so I had to realign things after properly repairing what corrosion was in each door (had some bad patches on the bottoms). I also had to replace some corroded parts of the lower body sills and parts of the rear quarters. I replaced all the wood in the body and top but it was all rotted out anyway. It actually had some hard rubber sections in the B pillars originally but I had to replace all that with wood since no one makes the hard rubber stuff. It took a while but I finally got everything to fit like it was supposed to.

The open cars, the soft top coupes, and some of the wood body cars are prone to body flex and wood deterioration that can really mess the alignment up.

[gdmn852]

I can see how a sport coupe would be similar to a roadster as far as support to the main body, another thing I noticed on the roadster is the top itself seems to spread the upper body also, I find it easier to just remove the top rather than fold it, and hope it doesn’t rain on tour !!

[55chevr]

do Sport coupes and roadster use the same sub frame?

[rotorwrench]

A portion of the parts are interchangeable in most steel body model A cars. The left and right sub rails or sills are different due to differences in the rear quarters and door sills. The seat risers have differences in the front portion and the B pillars are braced in a different way. The aft cross member and the channels are the same. The front lower cowl braces are basically the same. Pretty much everything above the sub frame is different with exception to the front lower cowl side panels and the gas tank with lower firewall.