another rear main seal leaking.

[48thames]

I was looking through all the receipts that came with my car and it seems that I have a Taylor built b engine with a whole list of stuff on the build sheet done to it. Among other things, they machined the thing to accept a chevy rear seal. My question is, can I just drop the pan and rear cap to replace it or will I have to pull the engine to replace it.
Maybe it has to much oil pressure, 40 to 50 cruising and 15 to 20 at idle. Sure would like to fix it, so I can park in the driveway. Any one ever had this problem?
Thanks.

[glenn in camino]

Check Snyder's catalog, page A122, left side of page. The rear main janitor, $19.95. Put a folded paper towel in it to contain the oil and keep it from spilling out on sharp curves or steep hills. One of my cars is a slight leaker so I change the paper towel every once in a while. If the rear main leaks more than the janitor can handle, drop the oil pan and check your main bearing clearances and rear main oil drain hole and drain pipe.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by 48thames

I was looking through all the receipts that came with my car and it seems that I have a Tayor built b engine with a whole list of stuff on the build sheet done to it. Among other things, they machined the thing to accept a chevy rear seal. My question is, can I just drop the pan and rear cap to replace it or will I have to pull the engine to replace it.
Maybe it has to much oil pressure, 40 to 50 cruising and 15 to 20 at idle. Sure would like to fix it, so I can park in the driveway. Any one ever had this problem?
Thanks.

Hey 48,
There was a time, when I lusted after a Jay Steel....dba: Taylor built A/B engine...mostly B ! I used to talk with him anytime that I got the opportunity and he wasn't busy, which wasn't often. I was convinced that he was as smart a builder as they come. And, never heard much about his work to discourage my respect for him. He passed before I got to a point where I may have been able to afford his services.
I think that if you have a Taylor made B, that the slinger would have been taken down to proper dimensions for an 'improved' rear seal to work. Burtz seals have worked for me and others I know. The Burtz is ONE piece seal. I have talked to others who have put in two piece modern seals...and have complained of leaks. Do you have a 'build sheet' that gives the exact dimension that your crank was machined/polished to have the seal rest on ? I could have gone either way (two piece/one piece) and talked to those who do such successfully and they said Burtz. I've talked to Terry Burtz himself before making choice. Plus, I'm running a Burtz rear seal for over TEN years now on my B in my '30 roadster...no leaks ! Besides proper machining/polishing, the Burtz one piece comes with a CUSTOM made slinger for up in the block. Dan Price, aka Dan4Banger(google) makes the custom slinger for the one piece Burtz.
So, all may not be lost for you in this matter ! I would recommend that you speak with Mr. Burtz first. If you live close enough, I will be glad to help you correct whatever is wrong. I have specs to compare, if you have specs. PM me if you like.
BTW, other than leak, how does you Taylor engine perform ?

[48thames]

This is the stuff done to it

[48thames]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey 48,
There was a time, when I lusted after a Jay Taylor built A/B engine...mostly B ! I used to talk with him anytime that I got the opportunity and he wasn't busy, which wasn't often. I was convinced that he was as smart a builder as they come. And, never heard much about his work to discourage my respect for him. He passed before I got to a point where I may have been able to afford his services.
I think that if you have a Taylor made B, that the slinger would have been taken down to proper dimensions for an 'improved' rear seal to work. Burtz seals have worked for me and others I know. The Burtz is ONE piece seal. I have talked to others who have put in two piece modern seals...and have complained of leaks. Do you have a 'build sheet' that gives the exact dimension that your crank was machined/polished to have the seal rest on ? I could have gone either way (two piece/one piece) and talked to those who do such successfully and they said Burtz. I've talked to Terry Burtz himself before making choice. Plus, I'm running a Burtz rear seal for over TEN years now on my B in my '30 roadster...no leaks ! Besides proper machining/polishing, the Burtz one piece comes with a CUSTOM made slinger for up in the block. Dan Price, aka Dan4Banger(google) makes the custom slinger for the one piece Burtz.
So, all may not be lost for you in this matter ! I would recommend that you speak with Mr. Burtz first. If you live close enough, I will be glad to help you correct whatever is wrong. I have specs to compare, if you have specs. PM me if you like.
BTW, other than leak, how does you Taylor engine perform ?

Thanks for the info on taylor engines. I think that I will call them and ask if they machine them for one or two piece Chevy seals. Besides the oil leak, it has no problem keeping up with traffic. I have never driven a stock model a before, so I have nothing to compare it to. It sounds a little different than the stock one's that I see.

[Terry Burtz, Calif]

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Any seal will leak if the seal rubbing surface is not concentric with the bearing journal.

Any seal will leak if the crankshaft is wobbling around in a loose rear main bearing.

Packing type seals (asbestos, cotton, wool, teflon, cork, etc) rely on crush at assembly to maintain contact with the seal rubbing surface. This crush wears away due to runout and wobble due to a loose bearing.

Radial lip seals are different. They are made of rubber (nitrile) and have a flexible lip that is preloaded against the seal rubbing surface. This flexible lip can accommodate much greater runout and wobble than packing type seals.

Every modern car uses a radial lip seal.

The Chevy seal conversion requires welding on the crankshaft to increase the diameter for the seal rubbing surface.

Welding on a crankshaft can cause heat treat problems and distortion.

Axial distortion can be corrected by taking a skim cut on the rear of the flywheel mounting flange, however radial distortion cannot be corrected.

[hardtimes]

Well, I looked your build sheet over. They cut your rear slinger to...2.430 After welding it up ? Hm, do not understand this, but then I do not have chev seal.
For my Burtz one piece rear seal, my slinger was modified concentric with crank center and with rear main surface..to 2.350 diam. then polished then custom slinger installed in block with seal in place. Taylor engine is still in business. You might want to talk with current owner(s) about their work and the leaking. But, I noticed that we're talking about engine done in 5/07 ?
Did it leak right away or what ? Is the leak getting worse than when first noticed ? How many miles do you have on the rebuild ?
I guess by now you've seen that Mr. Burtz has commented on your thread. You can PM him through this site, to discuss / ask questions. He is very easy to talk with and most knowledgeable.

[48thames]

I don't know how many miles that are on it, but was told that it has been sitting for a few year's. I just got it a few weeks ago and haven't put many miles on it yet. I am still looking over everything and trying to fix any problems that I find. This is my first model a, so I still have a lot of learning to do.
I really appreciate all the info.

[colin1928]

Hi 2.430 is the correct size for chev 2 piece seal
been using them in full oil pressure B engines for years
also very popular in MGTs
they work really well and can handle more than 50 lbs of pressure easy so that's not your problem
the machine work and installation must spot on or you can have a leak but that goes for any seal
many guys use felpro 2900 high proformance seal made for race engines very soft silicon the blue type
they wear fast and can burn with dry start ups engines that sit for a few weeks
the std chev seal works best
Colin

[48thames]

Originally Posted by colin1928

Hi 2.430 is the correct size for chev 2 piece seal
been using them in full oil pressure B engines for years
also very popular in MGTs
they work really well and can handle more than 50 lbs of pressure easy so that's not your problem
the machine work and installation must spot on or you can have a leak but that goes for any seal
many guys use felpro 2900 high proformance seal made for race engines very soft silicon the blue type
they wear fast and can burn with dry start ups engines that sit for a few weeks
the std chev seal works best
Colin

This sounds promising. I am hoping that this is my problem.I can't see up there, because it looks like the pan and cover are one piece. Don't know if there is anything else that it can be. If I knew for sure that I can replace the seal without pulling the engine, I would try and drop the pan first.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by glenn in camino

Check Snyder's catalog, page A122, left side of page. The rear main janitor, $19.95. Put a folded paper towel in it to contain the oil and keep it from spilling out on sharp curves or steep hills. One of my cars is a slight leaker so I change the paper towel every once in a while.

Glenn, I put a "Feminine Napkin" in mine and change it once a month... Keeps the Ol' Girl clean and happy.

[Bob C]

I think your engine was done by the old Taylor Engines. The new Taylor Engines is in Brea CA. Read this thread for more info https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59501.

Bob

[just plain bill]

With the Jay Steele Taylor engine chevy 2 piece rear seal you will have to make sure to seal the very small area where the seal adapter is not covered by the rear main cap when replacing the seal. There should be some provision, depending on what oil pump was used, to adjust the pressure. Does the paper work say what pump was used? I use the early Ford V8 long pumps converted for A B engines. If that is what you have you can shorten the spring to reduce pressure. There are 2 springs available for that pump an 80 lb and a 50 lb.
Taylor engine used JB weld to sea those small areas . PM me if I can be of further help I do have experience with those seals from Taylors.

[colin1928]

It is possible to change the seal in the car by removing the pan and the rear main cap and lower seal then slide the upper seal around the crank
I do not recommend installing the new seal that way it is very easy to damage it when trying to slide in the new seal
To get the best results remove the engine and crank change your seal by laying in place it is best to clock the seal slightly so the parting lines are 1/4 inch around from the main cap parting line just like chev did it
Other areas that can leak are rear main cap bolts , between the cap and block mating surface , rear of the cam shaft freeze plug
on pressure B engines the cam should be shortened and a freeze plug installed in the back of the block

[48thames]

Thanks everyone for the replies and info. I think that I am going to try and change the seal with the engine in the car now that I know that it is possible.
Maybe I can loosen the other main caps and gain enough clearance to roll the upper half in without any damage. If that don't work, then I am only out a few bucks for the parts and then I will pull the engine. Lots of great info on this board.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by 48thames

I don't know how many miles that are on it, but was told that it has been sitting for a few year's. I just got it a few weeks ago and haven't put many miles on it yet. I am still looking over everything and trying to fix any problems that I find. This is my first model a, so I still have a lot of learning to do.
I really appreciate all the info.

Ok, that explains a few things. I hate oil leaks...period ! So, it were my B, I'd start making plans on when it would be best time to take engine out and get it where you want it. Some guys say..only marking their territory. That , iMO, is not a good comment regarding Model As. If things are done correctly, and Jay Steel would have done this engine up to his standards, I'd fix it if possible. Since Jay died and that company has , kinda, changed hands and locations, and since you are not the original client. I'd not expect too much from that shop now. That being said, however, guys that worked that shop when Jay was alive...still work there and I believe now OWN the business. I'd say, if you will pay them, that they will make the seal work for you. You take engine out and to them,eh.
Now, since this IS your first A, now would be a great time to learn how to work on a Model A. You have the best of both worlds...Model A with B engine built by a great old builder ! It's not much to remove the engine. After that, it is just a matter of time till you get it fixed like you want it.

Your description of the oil pan makes it sound like a FULL B pan, unmodified ..no ? So, you must be running a '32 B trans also ? It will NOT be possible to get at the rear main area, if this is so, without pulling the engine, IMO. Most likely, the two piece chev seal dried/deteriorated a bit from lack of use/lube and maybe dust,dirt ? Pm me if you need further help. Where are you located..area ? I'm in 91306

[just plain bill]

This is the area where the Taylor chevy 2piece seal adapter will leak. At the outer edge of the adapter is a very small gap that the rear main cap does not cover. Jay's fix was to apply small amount of silicon between cap and block and seal the small gap with JB weld. Actually the entire exposed portion of the aluminum seal adapter should be sealed with a small amount of JB weld. I have 3 engines that were built at Taylors during time and all 3 ,2 B's, and 1 A have to be sealed in this manner.
When you install the cap you will see that the outer edge of the groove is not covered

[hardtimes]

Hey Bill,
The difference that I've seen, between the installation of the Taylor chev seal and the Burtz seal....your pic shows the brass thrust that Jay used , whereas, the custom slinger, which went up in the block, made by dan4banger...also was the thrust. And, we used silly cone sparingly ...slinger to block and around the areas that you mention.
Thing is, I received written very detailed instructions..for machinist and installer with this equipment. If you rec'd such written , maybe 48 thames would benefit from a copy ?

[just plain bill]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey Bill,
The difference that I've seen, between the installation of the Taylor chev seal and the Burtz seal....your pic shows the brass thrust that Jay used , whereas, the custom slinger, which went up in the block, made by dan4banger...also was the thrust. And, we used silly cone sparingly ...slinger to block and around the areas that you mention.
Thing is, I received written very detailed instructions..for machinist and installer with this equipment. If you rec'd such written , maybe 48 thames would benefit from a copy ?

I did not receive any written information. I was really frustrated with the persistent leak when pressure testing the rear seal and being told that I should cover the spot with JB weld but I didn't want to JB weld the rear cap on. So I took the block back to Taylor Engine and told them "You seal it" They did and then I saw where it leaked and how simple it was to fix. I have no Idea what anyone else might be doing. But I do know about this settup. On my engines Jay used the Biege or Tan "High Performance" seals and I don't think they would take a set. If I was 48thames I would drop the pan and see if there is a small dab of JB weld covering that part of the cap. It is possible that seal is not offset enough or that a small dab of silicone was not placed on the seal joint. I do know this, my Taylor 2 piece chevy rear main seals don't leak.

[KenCoupe]

I have a Taylor engine from a little before Jay passed away. It is an A engine with the Chevy rear seal and the full oil pressure. I don't know much about replacing the seal because I don't have any leaks there (if it ain't broke, don't fix it). Jay did tell me to keep the oil pressure around 60 - 65.