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Old 09-02-2014, 12:54 PM   #1
Bill Goddard
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Default Starter solenoid for Model A

My starter sw has welded closed twice in the last week. I have tried dielectric grease and raising the starter rod as high as I can above the floor board. I can't afford to have this occur on a tour.
Does anyone know what the setup is for a solenoid on the Model A starter? Thanks Bill G

P.S. IF IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE: STARTER IS 12 V

Last edited by Bill Goddard; 09-02-2014 at 04:18 PM. Reason: P.S.
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Old 09-02-2014, 01:03 PM   #2
JackA
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Default Re: Starter solenoid for Model A

The wire solenoid replaces the function of the starter switch. You have heavy wires to the battery and starter. It is necessary to run a small guage wire from the battery to a momentary switch and on to the solenoid this is to energize the internal relay. The second small wire is to ground. i don't know if you will find a 6 volt solenoid. The old Ford ones were best as they had a button on the case that could be used to actuate it manually.
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Old 09-02-2014, 01:18 PM   #3
Mike V. Florida
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Default Re: Starter solenoid for Model A

Remove the old switch. Drill and tap the copper button on the starter.

Wire as in drawing.

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Old 09-02-2014, 01:54 PM   #4
Clem Clement
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Default Re: Starter solenoid for Model A

Some repop starter switches have lousy bras strip inside. It gets hot and looses its spring factor. Replace.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:12 PM   #5
Willie Krash
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Default Re: Starter solenoid for Model A

In addition to Mike's drawing you can use a 6v tractor relay that is B circuit. One of the big terminals will say Batt.
That terminal is tied to the small winding that pulls the plunger. When the push button is pushed it takes it to ground and the plunger actuates. Used on Ford tractors.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:17 PM   #6
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Default Re: Starter solenoid for Model A

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Just guessing here... the solenoid will also weld together, just like your starter switch if you have shorts and excessive current draw from the starter. In other words, a solenoid won't solve the problem.

Assuming your starter is in good shape, just replace your starter switch with a good quality one, and you won't mess with it again for years.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:37 PM   #7
BILL WILLIAMSON
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Default Re: Starter solenoid for Model A

I don't drill & tap the post to secure the cable. I just bend the contact strip WAY DOWN & put the switch back on, & it looks "stock"! I even poke the rod back in, for looks. I "hid" the solenoid under the floorboards.
Bill W.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:38 PM   #8
Tom Wesenberg
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Default Re: Starter solenoid for Model A

I agree with Ray. It's usually best to repair the original problem.
Is there any chance the rod is binding due to an incorrect angle at the switch or tight grommet at the firewall?

If I did go the solenoid route (never), I'd do it as Bill just said.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:44 PM   #9
CarlG
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Default Re: Starter solenoid for Model A

I would do as Bill W says, except that rather than bend the contact strip, just turn it upside down. Does the same thing and doesn't prevent you from going back if you wanted to. (a trick I taught myself when I was 15)
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:46 PM   #10
Willie Krash
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Default Re: Starter solenoid for Model A

I would not use a starter relay.
However the type I mentioned would be less prone to sticking as there is a lot on NOS left. Also the disc dances and rotates so you equalize wear and this too helps. I may be wrong but typically the disc use copper alloys.
High amperage can turn copper in to molten goo. The real answer is of course to find a real switch or original switch. Shouldn't be to hard to find and make sure you have a good battery.
I have seen 24v solenoids with silver inlay go molten from low voltage/high amperage.
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:32 PM   #11
Bill Goddard
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Default Re: Starter solenoid for Model A

I am not good with electricity. How can I tell if I have low voltage and high amperage? The starter sounds powerful when I push the rod down. Battery measures 12.99v

Can't tell if I have copper, brass or bronze contact strip.

Tom, The grommet is tight and I have had to grease it - several times. Maybe I should open it up. The angle is good for the rod to return.

Bill G

Last edited by Bill Goddard; 09-02-2014 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:04 PM   #12
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Default Re: Starter solenoid for Model A

should not be that tight. grind or file it bigger. rod should be loose in there
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Old 09-02-2014, 09:26 PM   #13
Willie Krash
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Default Re: Starter solenoid for Model A

It is hard to imagine a 12V battery turning over a 40HP motor pulling enough amps to weld the contacts. It is a simple statement from me but V-8s with massive HP rarely do it.
The battery condition that would exist is rare. In other words a 650CCA battery pushing a big V-8 over with a battery that say has a bad cell might breakdown to 5V and 600 amps.
When I see high amperage it typically a starter to small for the engine, more so than a battery. Delco was good for that but even that is rare. Big diesels with multiple batteries can melt copper down.
Particularly if the batteries are 6V. (never use a 6v string on a semi)
Find a good switch. Melting or sticking copper takes a lot of amperage at low voltage.
On 12V even dead shorts in starters typically don't weld, the battery cables get hot and absorb a lot of energy. Above a 1000 amps and it ain't pretty.
Do make sure the engine IS retarded when starting, the lever is up but is past TDC?. It's all not just kick-back. We would see Fords in the 70's laboring to turn over and the customer would buy starter after starter. They also would put on NAPA modules. The OEM modules retarded the timing for starting, many of the after market ones did not...The big group 27 battery would put out an enormous amount of current, yet sticking was very rare.
Sorry for the long post.

All the posts I have read seem to point to repop switches.
If you have an old time mom and pop starter shop see if they have an original one on a core. I have in the past given that stuff away. Now that I have an 'A' I keep one or two for myself. You might be surprised.
I wonder as others have mentioned does the copper strap have 'spring'?
It may be as simple as that and keeping copper (alloy? I hope) spring when warm is the object. Ford understood this..
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:30 AM   #14
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Default Re: Starter solenoid for Model A

Hey Bill,
I've been running 12V for 10/12 yrs on an original 6V starter. The REPRO switch did same thing that you describe. IMO, the easiest and good solution....get an OEM switch and your troubles will disappear ! Mine did, good luck
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Old 09-03-2014, 08:21 AM   #15
Bill Goddard
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Default Re: Starter solenoid for Model A

The spring conact looks like brass or copper. I have about 1/8 - 3/16" travel on the rod to make contact. I opened up the hole in the grommet so there is sloppy loose fit to rod. It works so far, but I will be getting an original switch or a bronze spring as soon as possible. Maybe Hershy.
Thanks all of you for your replies and ideas.

Bill G
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Old 09-03-2014, 08:52 AM   #16
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Default Re: Starter solenoid for Model A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Goddard View Post
The spring conact looks like brass or copper. I have about 1/8 - 3/16" travel on the rod to make contact. I opened up the hole in the grommet so there is sloppy loose fit to rod. It works so far, but I will be getting an original switch or a bronze spring as soon as possible. Maybe Hershy.
Thanks all of you for your replies and ideas.

Bill G
I think that is too close, seems to me that they travel about 1/2". But as Tom said Always repair the original problem, never add parts instead.
There are hundreds of thousands of model A's out there with no problems.
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Old 09-03-2014, 02:52 PM   #17
Dick Deegan
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Default Re: Starter solenoid for Model A

I used a starter solenoid for a couple of years and it worked fine. I took it off - well, just 'cause - bored or something. It was a 6V solenoid I purchased from Snyder's. I simply took the starter switch off and turned the brass contact piece upside down so that it was in constant contact with the starter motor button. It worked fine. When I got bored and put it back it was a simple job and required no new parts. The starter switch was fine.

Have fun

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