Value of an Un-Restored Model A Engine

[Synchro909]

I've read all of the posts in this thread and can't believe how much stuff you guys have at your disposal and the ridiculously low prices. Sure, the arrival of the Burtz engine plays into this but I've had to advertise for a rebuildable bare block. Eventually, a club member said he had one.
As for low ball offer, that happens here too. I was selling a nice clean car a few years ago when a guys looked it over and started nit picking every little stone chip. It was obvious to me that he was trying to set the scene for a low offer. I told him I knew what he was doing - not interested. "You can see that it's a good car at a decent price. Now get out!" I threw him off the property and he wasn't happy. I thought "Two can play that game." I have had my suspicions since that the guy who eventually did buy it (at my price) was a friend of that first guy.

[Seth Swoboda]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

I've read all of the posts in this thread and can't believe how much stuff you guys have at your disposal and the ridiculously low prices. Sure, the arrival of the Burtz engine plays into this but I've had to advertise for a rebuildable bare block. Eventually, a club member said he had one.
As for low ball offer, that happens here too. I was selling a nice clean car a few years ago when a guys looked it over and started nit picking every little stone chip. It was obvious to me that he was trying to set the scene for a low offer. I told him I knew what he was doing - not interested. "You can see that it's a good car at a decent price. Now get out!" I threw him off the property and he wasn't happy. I thought "Two can play that game." I have had my suspicions since that the guy who eventually did buy it (at my price) was a friend of that first guy.

Synchro, If you were closer to me I would have helped you out on parts at very reasonable prices. I'd bet some of these guys stating that they saw engine parts at swap meets that couldn't be given away, wouldn't give their stuff away.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Seth Swoboda

Synchro, If you were closer to me I would have helped you out on parts at very reasonable prices. I'd bet some of these guys stating that they saw engine parts at swap meets that couldn't be given away, wouldn't give their stuff away.

Even if I were to get something free over there, by the time I have it in my hand, it is very expensive even by surface shipping. Air is ridiculous.

[ronn]

as Ive said previously, you just chose the wrong country to live in!




lol

[Swingle]

Stopped by the scrap yard to see their payout on steel, only 3 cents a pound.

[Keith True]

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Light iron here is a nickel,heavy steel is around 10,and frag was 12.Engines and transmissions are priced as frag here.It's close to $250.per ton for frag and about $100.for light iron.# 1 steel is running about $200.It does vary weekly,but for the most part stays pretty steady.We did have a year long spike 15 years ago,it had everybody cleaning out their backyards.I scrapped a D 6 bulldozer I had in the bushes for $4030.00 in 2010.

[lrf]

If the engine is running so you can hear it or you know the history of the car or person that it came from, I'd say the running engine is worth (to me) $500. My friend lost his wife recently, his family doesn't give a **** about his cars or parts. I'll help him by buying/selling his many parts and selling his parts at a swap meet. Trying to keeping the hobby alive. LRF

[J Franklin]

A person that truly embraces this hobby will sacrifice a bit of time and effort to help disperse usable parts to those needing them. Junk can be culled and sent to a scrap yard. Clubs might be a ready source of free help in the process. You Aussies could pony up for a shipping container and take a load of the free stuff home maybe.

[Kurt in NJ]

There was a engine without head a few booths away at Hershey a couple years ago, every I ever I walked by it called to me ( I don’t need more engines) I looked at it several time, the bores were small enough that .020 bore could be possible, the water jacket was never rusty, the outside was never rusty, the engine number is not being used on any motor vehicle databases, upon disassembly the camshaft bearing bores still have machining marks and are in the middl of factory sizes, no cracks or damaged stud threads —#3 cleaned up at .023, the others would clean up at under .020, the valve seats will not need replace because of being ground too much, —- so what would be the value of a block like this.

[dave in australia]

I recently sold a complete engine for $50, and told the buyer that if there's a crack, bring it back and I'll get another one out for you. It comes down to supply and demand. I have about twenty five engines that occupy storage space and their condition is unknown. It helped to keep another A on the road.

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

There was a engine without head a few booths away at Hershey a couple years ago, every I ever I walked by it called to me ( I don’t need more engines) I looked at it several time, the bores were small enough that .020 bore could be possible, the water jacket was never rusty, the outside was never rusty, the engine number is not being used on any motor vehicle databases, upon disassembly the camshaft bearing bores still have machining marks and are in the middl of factory sizes, no cracks or damaged stud threads —#3 cleaned up at .023, the others would clean up at under .020, the valve seats will not need replace because of being ground too much, —- so what would be the value of a block like this.

The scrap value of $50 plus the hourly rate for your time to establish all of this and the work that was done.

Being "less worn" than usually seen MIGHT be a plus - but not a big one. It's still worn and not a "drop-in." And you're competing with all the blocks that are worn but "salvageable" by similar work.

Joe K

[Seth Swoboda]

I put several Model A and V8 Flatheads out by the road in front of my house. I have a sign on them that says "Free". Hoepfully someone will take the time to haul them off.

[dmar836]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

There was a engine without head a few booths away at Hershey a couple years ago, every I ever I walked by it called to me ( I don’t need more engines) I looked at it several time, the bores were small enough that .020 bore could be possible, the water jacket was never rusty, the outside was never rusty, the engine number is not being used on any motor vehicle databases, upon disassembly the camshaft bearing bores still have machining marks and are in the middl of factory sizes, no cracks or damaged stud threads —#3 cleaned up at .023, the others would clean up at under .020, the valve seats will not need replace because of being ground too much, —- so what would be the value of a block like this.

A bit more since you spent the time to disassemble, check, bore it(presumably without new pistons yet in hand), and chase down the engine number(?). Add a pressure check and you have reason to ask a bit more as a sure, rebuildable core. But how aggressively a block needs to be machined for rebuild doesn't move the needle much as it still needs to be machined and new parts fitted.

So the average buyer at a flea market or at a barn sale cannot do any of that stuff. It's always a pig in a poke. V8s get guys all the time. "Ran when pulled" kind of stuff that often means "Ran but pulled for a reason."

I would still have to consider what the cost to rebuild it would be. Parts aren't the cheapest but even if they were it's the labor that's now the issue. In my case it's my own labor, so a decent amount of sweat equity and no small amount of time. That doesn't leave much to spend on a core. Consequently, I haven't seen one that shimmers like gold yet.



Not criticizing your example at all but a buyer cannot be expected to assume any of that(most are not great) so its pay me now or pay me later.


JMO
D

[Model "A" Fords]

Original Model "A" part numbers are declining with time, making the parts still available more valuable.

A man had an original fan belt stashed away. When he died his stash goes into the garbage by an uninterested Son. Later someone needs one for a points car and is willing to pay $300.00 for one. Too bad it is gone! A few more years and someone offers $1,000.00 for one. There are none available.
Now, a man needing that belt, receives 498 points at judging. He is now told of an original belt that was just tossed.
How much is it worth now?

I found the original engine for my car in a pile of crappy looking engines in an unheated garage. I had no idea of condition but sent mine for a rebuild. The block was cracked but being the one for my car I was happy to pay for any repairs to keep it original. The remaining engines were given away free, to a friend that does Model "A" rework.

Before scrapping, if it comes to that, give them to someone in the rebuild business as he will be a better judge of whether or not they are scrap.

[Joe K]

"Ran when pulled" kind of stuff that often means "Ran but pulled for a reason."

One has to keep that in mind. "Barn find" usually means there was some issue which caused it's removal and storage in the barn.

"Might use it some day" was popular then as it is now.

Almost every part of my (er) collection needs some sort of "work" to bring it back. VERY rare to find a complete assembly without issue. Parts one can "pick and choose" - and even then one can be fooled. A $100 transmission bought in Vermont comes to mind which was discovered to have the "smile crack" after its arrival home. I don't think the seller had any idea what he was selling had an issue. No matter. MANY gears are likely useable - although I would be replacing the bearings as a matter of policy. And at least three spare cases to make up the deficiency.

One thinks of a Twilight Zone episode about rebuilding after a nuclear holocaust. I just wish the opposition was Elizabeth Montgomery and not simply "wear and tear."


Joe K

[ronn]

Ran but pulled for a reason.


yep- to install a sbc or flatty in many cases..............

[J Franklin]

Originally Posted by ronn

Ran but pulled for a reason.


yep- to install a sbc or flatty in many cases..............

Many times true, even back in the day of replacing with a flathead.

[dmar836]

Yep and many for other reasons. You just can't know. There are stories all over about engines bought that "ran fine", were "rebuilt", or were even hopped up - V8s with Merc cranks, etc. only to be found to be seized, worn out(like mine with no shims), or just bone stock plodders. It's just a chance I'm not willing to take. I'm glad others have not been so disappointed. When I build it, I know what it is.
None of this makes an old core worth more.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by ronn

as Ive said previously, you just chose the wrong country to live in!




lol

None of us get to chose where we ae born. Few are the people who move to another country later in life and sure, I could change but I'm not. The cost of freight from such an expensive country as the US is a small price to pay for living here IMO.

[Hitman]

Originally Posted by ronn

Ran but pulled for a reason.


yep- to install a sbc or flatty in many cases..............

Not for me. “rebuilt or running engines and/or chassis” need to be disassembled to verify. If they don’t want to spend the time or money on that, it’s a core motor.

Engines ARE pulled for a reason, sbc or other reasons. There’s a reason.

I have engines that I pulled. They ran, but I had better engines to rebuild. Did they burn oil, are they cracked, are they .100 over, do they knock? No idea! My spares are cores. Until disassembled, everything is a core.