First Jeep was a Ford with......

[Tom Wesenberg]

A tranny needs to withstand a certain amount of torque, and the torque through the tranny would be the same if the transfer case is one to one, but will drop if the transfer case gives a geared down ratio.

[5lugnuts]

Interesting! I looked it up, the CJ 2A had a rear diff ratio of 5.38. The WWII diff was probably 4.88.

The transfer case and gears give the CJ 2A Jeep a "crawl ratio of around 38.8:1". It was a 60 hp flathead engine. The 60 hp was at at 4000 rpm according to what I found. Torque was 105 at 2000 rpm. Those engines did scream quite a bit!

Would the Model A transmission gears hold that torque with a 5.38 or 4.88 differential? Could the Model A and the jeep transmission have held the same gears? If so, could the syncros used in the jeep be used in a Model A?

Somebody on here knows!

[1952henry]

I believe the model A transmissions were only used in the GPs. And maybe not even the later GPs. When the GPWs debuted they used the same T84 Warner transmission as the Willys. The W in GPW stood for Willys as in Willys pattern. G-government, P-80" wheelbase

[5lugnuts]

G government, P 80 inch W Willys pattern. Something else I didn't know!

I'm curious if the T 84 was from the Willys car? I always had thought it was without actually knowing. Early GP with Model A transmission rings a bell but don't remember completely if I once read that. It certainly makes sense. After the GP the Ford gear set might have been used to make the T 84 transmission.

The original Willys car trans. might not have been strong enough for use in the Jeep or maybe Willys used the Ford gear set in the Willys cars and the Jeep?

I tried yesterday to find if the T 84 trans. used the Model A gear set but no success. I couldn't find if the T 84 was used in the 37 to 41 Willys car either. I did find some surprising crossovers for other parts though.

Again, the difference is the syncromesh gears.

[Dino's A]

Let's set the record straight.....The transmission that was used on the Willy's jeep was made by Borg-Warner and it was the T-84. When Ford was given the plans to make the jeep because Willy's could not keep up with the demand, they started building the jeep. The Ford transmission was a copy of the T-84. It had the Ford script letter "F" to distinguish the part away from the Willy's Borg-Warner T-84. Ford was frugal, he didn't want to warranty any Willy's parts. Smart I guess, but he was given the plans free of charge. He supposedly was extremely upset when the government canceled the 15th contract. The reason was the war was coming to an end.

Believe it or not it was not a very durable transmission. It was from the Willy's sedan that they were making before the war. During the war, they would simply change out transmissions and move on. Maybe that's why the jeep seemed so tough and durable.

Many do not know, but France obtained the right to produce our jeep up until about 1962. Many parts people here travel there yearly to buy parts. The T-84 transmission case has "WOF" stamped on it. It stands for "Willy's of France".

[1952henry]

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The transmission was indeed not a dandy. That's why the civilian jeeps were equipped with the T-90.

I am sure Ford's part number for the transmission used in the GP was GP 7000. Neither the A transmission or N series (tractor) engine were up to the task.

[Dino's A]

100% accurate! The T-90 was so much stronger that many guys would even put them behind a Chevy V8 or the more popular Buick V6. I only got around 20,000 miles though, until the syncho hub would lock up in my V8 jeep. Either way, it was way more durable. Could you put the T-90 in a Army Jeep from WWII? Yes, but you had to cut the floor out for the trans & tower to fit. Later down the road. you could now use an automatic with the shortened tailshaft. You are constantly fighting a length problem because the transfer case takes up driveshaft space.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by 31 Model A

a Model A tranny:

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2016/...jeep-isnt-one/

At least one glaring error in this account: The writer claims the Ford prototype had a Fordson tractor engine"! Does this guy have any idea how big a Fordson tractor engine is?? They had a 4" (later versions 41/8") bore and 5" stroke; around 260 cu. in. They were rated at 1,000 or 1100 RPM. No way would they fit in a "Jeep" prototype! And why use an engine that topped out at only 1100 RPM? Why do these writer guys keep printing such hogwash? They must be too lazy to do even basic research!
If Ford used a tractor engine, it would have been the 9N, released in 1939. It was basically half of the 239 Mercury V8, also released that year. This four cyl. was 119.5 cu. in. and the pistons, rings, valves and lifters were a direct swap with that V8. The starter and oil pump were from the V8 60. It made for an efficient, compact package. Unlike that lump of a Fordson engine which dates back to 1917.

[31 Model A]

http://www.jeepcollection.com/portfolio/1941-ford-gp/

[31 Model A]

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1940-1941-jeep.htm

[Dino's A]

The only remote item that the Ford Fordson tractor motor and the Willy's designed L-134 motor had in common was the color. And that was grey. Willy's motors were sprayed olive drab at the factory.

Interesting to note: Ford engine blocks were weaker then their Willy's counterpart as they were more susceptible to cracks under the distributor boss.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by 31 Model A

http://www.jeepcollection.com/portfolio/1941-ford-gp/

More wrong information. The prototype did not use a "Fordson N" engine. It used a 9N "Ford" tractor engine. The two are not at all similar. The Fordson was built beginning 1917 by a different company just for this tractor, called the "Henry Ford & Son Company", shortened to Fordson. The 9N "Ford" tractor was built by the "Ford Motor Company" beginning in 1939. Two entirely different tractors built by two different companies (but both owned by Henry Ford). The 9N tractor was NEVER known as a "Fordson". We need to keep our facts straight, as too much erroneous information is creeping into history by sloppy writers and researchers!

[31 Model A]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

We need to keep our facts straight, as too much erroneous information is creeping into history by sloppy writers and researchers!

http://www.jeepcollection.com/contact/

[5lugnuts]

Let's set the record straight..... There was no T 86 transmission. It was a T 90 for civilian Jeeps after the war.

WOF - Willys of France bought a licence to manufacture the Willys design in a town north of Paris and did so for ten years up to about 1960.

The WOF Jeep was fitted with a 24 volt electrical system, electric windshield wipers and was given the designation of M 201. WOF was cast on the side of the engine and trans(I saw those engines and a few M 201 Jeeps brought to the US by private parties). I bought a repro body tub made in France and imported by a military dealer. It was probably not made by WOF as some companies were producing replacement tubs in France for the M 201 by the time I got interested in Jeeps. It was pre drilled for everything and might have had a heavier metal floor than the original Willys, but I could be wrong about that as I never measured it (the front of that tub was surprisingly heavier than it looked). Over the time period mentioned WOF made about 25,000 Jeeps (they had plenty of American Jeeps left behind as well as a huge supply of spare parts). France was the favored port of entry and departure during the war. US production in four years was close to 600,000 total.

I'm thinking a WWII Jeep done up correct might draw more attention than a Model A if both were parked at a late model car show. They are both historic vehicles worth saving and they are both parade worthy vehicles. Although, I sometimes wonder why the Model T doesn't get more interest.

[Dino's A]

I meant T-84 and typed T-86. I was also wrong on Switzerland while I meant France.
I'll stop doing 3 things at a time!