What is a safe water temperature?

[Plainsman30]

Our engine was overhauled 13 years and 15,000 ago. It was checked for cracks before we overhauled it at that time.

When we took it apart again now, it was cracked between the valves, so we are now building a different engine. The car has an original 1930 radiator (which has been flushed out but not rodded) and a 160 degree thermostat. The temp runs about 190 most of the time but can get close to 200 once in a while.

I am wondering if this is 190-200 too hot and could it cause the cracking?
Thanks

[J Franklin]

as long as it is not boiling you shouldn't need to worry.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I agree with J Franklin. Just be sure to add coolant very slowly if you are adding it to a hot running engine. Also be sure to use antifreeze, as it raises the boiling point.

Were you using a B block that cracked?

[Plainsman30]

Thank you all for the replies.

The block that cracked was an A block.

[Chris in CT]

Hi Plainsman,

Happy Memorial Day. Since water begins to make steam vapors at 180 degrees, ideally it would be a good idea not to raise engine temperature beyond that point. Practically speaking, you just don't want the darn thing to boil over.

The model A engine does not heat uniformly, however, and "hot spots" do occur in the engine. What you may read on your temperature probe may not actually reflect what is going on in any specific area of your engine.

That being said, your engine temperature is probably not the source of cracks in the block, unless your engine overheated and then was filled with cold water. Straight overheating with too little water in the block could certainly also result in a crack...

Happy Motoring!

[Tom Wesenberg]

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Also, are the walls of the cooling system rusted thin by years of using plain water?
That could greatly aid in creating cracks.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Mike,

Just FWIW and for all who may read this about cracked blocks, sometimes it is a good idea to explain ..... not how to prevent cracked blocks ...... but:

A. How to crack a Model A engine Block 100% of the time while driving?

1. First as soon as one sees his temperature gauge rising, or he sees steam coming out of the top of the radiator, do not stop ........ just continue driving.

2. As the steam evaporates, less coolant is available, so again, continue driving and do not stop ...... just try to drive to a service station to avoid walking.

3. As you approach the nearest service station, just pull up to the water spigot.

4. If one sees no water being pumped up to the top of the radiator ...... this is a very good sign.

5. Pour cool tap water into the radiator where it will enter the top radiator hose, flow downwards, and enter the super-heated cast iron engine's water jacket.

6. The cool water will quickly make the thin cast iron rapidly contract and Bingo ..... you have a cracked block.

B. On the other hand if one sees a good flow of water being pumped into the top of the radiator, one may add a little cool water at a time to flow through the hot radiator first, to get heated prior to contacting the cast iron.

Hope this helps.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Mike,

Just FWIW and for all who may read this about cracked blocks, sometimes it is a good idea to explain ..... not how to prevent cracked blocks ...... but:

A. How to crack a Model A engine Block 100% of the time while driving?

1. First as soon as one sees his temperature gauge rising, or he sees steam coming out of the top of the radiator, do not stop ........ just continue driving.

2. As the steam evaporates, less coolant is available, so again, continue driving and do not stop ...... just try to drive to a service station to avoid walking.

3. As you approach the nearest service station, just pull up to the water spigot.

4. If one sees no water being pumped up to the top of the radiator ...... this is a very good sign.

5. Pour cool tap water into the radiator where it will enter the top radiator hose, flow downwards, and enter the super-heated cast iron engine's water jacket.

6. The cool water will quickly make the thin cast iron rapidly contract and Bingo ..... you have a cracked block.

B. On the other hand if one sees a good flow of water being pumped into the top of the radiator, one may add a little cool water at a time to flow through the hot radiator first, to get heated prior to contacting the cast iron.

Hope this helps.

True, but still funny

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Mike V;

It is funny; however, after years of providing learning instructions and training, I have no doubt from vast experience that with humans:

1. If one teaches: "How to get poisoned by a venomous reptile and die." ........ everybody listens attentively.

2. If one teaches: "How to prevent from getting bit by a venomous reptile." .......... everybody either goes to sleep or starts day dreaming.

Works well with training horses and dogs also ..... just learn how a horse and a dog reacts and you can get their undivided attention. LOL

[WestCoast]

flushing a radiator is a waste of time and money if you bought a radiator flush product at a parts store, none of it works, if in doubt have it rodded out, a quick check for a plugged radiator is to take car for a good run, then while engine is idling, put your hand on top of radiator cores, both sides, then put your hand on the bottom of the radiator cores, both sides if the top is to hot to hold your hand there and the bottom is cold its a good sign your radiator is plugged, the top of the cores should be pretty hot and the bottom of the cores should be fairly warm, and please, please do this test on the outside of the radiator, way from the fan, I know this is just common sense, but there is always one in every crowd, also the temp you are looking for is 180, that is the best temp for clean running engine, any thing between 180 and 200 is ok, closer to 180 is what I try for

[H. L. Chauvin]

Victor W. Page wrote a book on Model A maintenance early on, which includes a few paragraphs on a very positive and sure way to thoroughly clean grease and mineral deposits in vintage clogged radiators without rodding.

But, ever since kids were not allowed to bring pocket knives to school, or wear play cap pistols to school in holsters, grown ups became brain dead enough to where they could no longer load muzzle loader shotguns with black gun powder, no longer train mules to correctly walk in a furrow, and no longer handle the caustic soda recommended by Mr. Page.

Maybe winter clothing will soon be outlawed also because of Global Warming ....... and hamburgers will become obsolete soon because with the EPA's Clean Water Act, cow dropping will not be not allowed in streams ....... the Model A "ERA" was just different. LOL

[marc hildebrant]

Lye (caustic soda) is available in many stores. Could you describe the cleaning method ?


I can reload a black powder flintlock and have it fire, but mules are a problem...

Marc

[40 Deluxe]

Above 32 F. is generally considered safe.

[stouchton]

Ok... from start to finish nailed it: 32F to boiling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Marc,

My Victor W. Page book is at home ... will let you know when I get home late tonight.

Original Model A's are mostly the same today ...... but the minds of the people driving them and working on them appear to have changed.

Now, as far as mules, be mindful of the foreign imports:

A. Did you know that the British Mules drive differently from American Mules?

B. In America and many other parts, "Gee" is right and "Haw" is left; but in England, it is the opposite.

C. If you ever buy an import, just did not want you to ruin your garden because of a wrong turn.

Hope this helps.

[mcorrell]

I seriously have a question that, even though I am well versed on old cars, the Model A is a bit before my time. How does one correctly read a motometer? While out driving Monday I was pulling a slight grade in high gear when I noticed the thermometer in the motometer go quickly from no red to red all the way to just below the circle. I then realized I should be decreasing the ignition advance about half way to meet the load. Once I did that the thermometer fairly quickly dropped down to almost no red being visible. There are no numbers on my motometer. I wish my grandfather was still aorund to give me advice.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Marc,

As requested, here is Victor W. Page's:

Caustic Soda Radiator & Engine Block Flush Method:

1. With the radiator mounted in the vehicle, first fill the radiator and the engine block with water.

2. Then drain the radiator and engine block to determine the coolant capacity of a particular vehicle, measured in gallons. (Don't forget to close the petcock at the base of the radiator after draining and prior to adding caustic soda.)

3. Next, prepare a solution of 2-1/2 pounds of caustic soda to one gallon of water, mixing enough solution to fill the entire radiator and engine block cooling system.

4. Considerable heat is generated when caustic soda is added to water. Also, the dissolving of caustic soda requires frequent stirring when mixing.

5. After thoroughly mixing, allow this solution to cool and very carefully pour this liquid in the radiator to fill the entire cooling system and allow it to remain over night.

6. Next morning, drain radiator, and flush same "under pressure" with a water hose.

This solution will cut rust, scale, and will dissolve them or loosen them to be flushed out. It also removes human skin.

[Jacksonlll]

Just one note about the Motometer, it only measures the air temp above the water, except for the splashing.

[marc hildebrant]

H.L.

Thanks for the info. A strong base solution will clean well...only caution besides the damage to skin is that it will "eat" aluminum.

Marc

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by mcorrell

I seriously have a question that, even though I am well versed on old cars, the Model A is a bit before my time. How does one correctly read a motometer? While out driving Monday I was pulling a slight grade in high gear when I noticed the thermometer in the motometer go quickly from no red to red all the way to just below the circle. I then realized I should be decreasing the ignition advance about half way to meet the load. Once I did that the thermometer fairly quickly dropped down to almost no red being visible. There are no numbers on my motometer. I wish my grandfather was still aorund to give me advice.

You did perfect! It went high you noticed it, changed the settings and it went down. One cannot ask for more out of the Motometer.