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Old 01-15-2017, 08:24 PM   #1
pookie55
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Default Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

My dilemma is the truck is not titled yet it was purchased from out of state
The truck body is a 31' bud steel roof cab.
A 30' chassis according to the VIN number on the frame
And a 29' engine according to the VIN number on the engine block..
Any advice on how this unit should be titled would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 01-15-2017, 09:29 PM   #2
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

I wouldn't use the '29 VIN on the engine block as engines were changed often and the truck is obviously not a '29. I think I would go with the '31 as it has the steel roof and that is what everyone will be looking at. The state will probably but an ID tag on your door and frame so unless someone pulls the body and looks at the number on the frame there is no way to tell it is not a '31. Advice, call your local DMV and do it right, no short cuts. Title it before you do ANY work.

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Last edited by Charlie Stephens; 01-15-2017 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 01-15-2017, 10:16 PM   #3
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

I agree with Charlie. It is a 31 by the cab.
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Old 01-15-2017, 11:01 PM   #4
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

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I agree with Charlie. It is a 31 by the cab.
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Old 01-16-2017, 12:47 AM   #5
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

In IL its by the frame that identifies a car...use a 78 truck frame as the base for a homeade car? its a 78 truck according to the state.
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Old 01-16-2017, 06:40 AM   #6
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

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Depending on what state you live in, you might just use the frame # and call it a 31 pickup. As Charlie said, engines get changed out, but the frame stays the same.
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Old 01-16-2017, 12:09 PM   #7
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

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In IL its by the frame that identifies a car...use a 78 truck frame as the base for a homeade car? its a 78 truck according to the state.
In the state of Washington, getting a title for an original looking old car not having a good VIN number, the year of car is based on what year, make, and body style the vehicle most closely represents. I assembled a 1928 model A roadster from a collection of parts. The state assigned it a new VIN number and licensed it as a 1928 Ford Model A with 2 doors.
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Old 01-18-2017, 02:19 AM   #8
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

Thanks for the reply I agree I definitely wanted to read a 31 I do live in Indiana so I'll have to find out from the DMV what the proper procedure is
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Old 01-18-2017, 02:20 AM   #9
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

Thanks to all who responded I greatly appreciate all the advice. Now if I can only figure out how to post pics I will add some good photos of the truck
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Old 01-18-2017, 03:06 AM   #10
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

I see title problems come up here time after time. Thank goodness we don't have titles for cars!
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Old 01-18-2017, 04:00 PM   #11
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

What ever you do, don't spend a dime on it until you have it titled. Way too many stories about folks who did extensive modifications or restorations (depending on the board their posting on) and then couldn't get it titled. Along with that, save receipts and log expenses. At some point, somebody will want to know the value of your build-for insurance, for sales tax, for resale, etc. Best of luck
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Old 01-18-2017, 09:49 PM   #12
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

Thanks for the advice
Tried downloading some pics of the truck hopefully it worked
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Old 01-19-2017, 10:14 AM   #13
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

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Thanks for the reply I agree I definitely wanted to read a 31 I do live in Indiana so I'll have to find out from the DMV what the proper procedure is
Things might have changed, but when I titled my '29 roadster several years ago in Indiana you couldn't get a title or plates until and unless the car was driveable. Be sure to check this out at your local branch of the DMV. In Indiana, you also now have to "declare" that any car with collector plates will not be used primarily for transportation, but is part of a hobby or is an investment.
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Old 01-19-2017, 12:29 PM   #14
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

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I see title problems come up here time after time. Thank goodness we don't have titles for cars!
NO TITLES? What do you use for knowing who belongs to whom! :-)
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Old 01-19-2017, 02:28 PM   #15
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

Truck is driveable I've driven it multiple times with old plates on it. Mostly at holiday Fourth of July with grandkids.
I purchased the truck through an auction house. Auction company purchased multiple vehicles from a family after owner's death. After going through multiple titles none match the truck perfectly so auction house is willing to work with me to correct title problem.
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Old 01-19-2017, 03:08 PM   #16
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

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Originally Posted by pookie55 View Post
Truck is driveable I've driven it multiple times with old plates on it. Mostly at holiday Fourth of July with grandkids.
I purchased the truck through an auction house. Auction company purchased multiple vehicles from a family after owner's death. After going through multiple titles none match the truck perfectly so auction house is willing to work with me to correct title problem.
You might want to brush up on the law. In some states it is illegal to sell a vehicle without a title. You might have more leverage than you realize. When you say "going through multiple titles" do you mean the auction company has a box of titles? Your DMV might be interested in that. Worst case you might end up shipping it back and, of course, having them pay the shipping. Since they may have done something illegal and shipped it across state lines I wonder if that becomes a Federal crime?

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Old 01-19-2017, 06:03 PM   #17
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

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Originally Posted by pookie55 View Post
Truck is driveable I've driven it multiple times with old plates on it. Mostly at holiday Fourth of July with grandkids.
I purchased the truck through an auction house. Auction company purchased multiple vehicles from a family after owner's death. After going through multiple titles none match the truck perfectly so auction house is willing to work with me to correct title problem.
http://www.in.gov/bmv/3095.htm

time to call your DMV, if they are anything like IL prepare for a 6 hour day there, requesting of 1000 forms, your checkbook as everyone wants taxes, and any and all paperwork you got from the auction house.

I fear you may be opening up a can of worms.

Did the auction house find mates for all the other cars if they came from one family? was there one left over that was close enough to yours? its much easier to correct a title than it is to make one appear out of thin air.
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Old 01-19-2017, 06:58 PM   #18
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

I would love to see more pics, I am sure it will all work out
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Old 01-19-2017, 11:00 PM   #19
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

Our last conversation with auction house was, if I remember correctly (I have a title or bill of sales for the truck and he said he thinks the paperwork was for a 1930). Truck was auctioned and advertised as a 1930. My receipt for winning bid from auction house states its a 1930 Model A pickup truck. Once i explained to him over the phone many weeks later that the engine numbers did not match 1930 in fact were 1929 and the steel cab was definitely a 31. He then suggested I find the frame numbers so we could legally title it correctly. now i have proof the frame is a 1930.
At this point I don't think he has done anything scrupulous I myself have been dragging my feet with always working and not spending enough time in the garage to remove the body from chassis to find out until now, many months later.
I have called the auction house to give them the information and I'm waiting for a return call.
All should go well if not I will definitely be posting and taking matters further
Thanks again

Last edited by pookie55; 01-19-2017 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 01-20-2017, 09:45 PM   #20
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

Just an update. After speaking with the owner today at the auction house it is a bill of sale and he will title it with whatever #s I choose (is the way he put it) send me what information you have and I'll have a title for you in 6 weeks.
He assured me there will be no issue titling it a 30 or 31

My dilemma is if I use 1931 what numbers would I choose?
Can I use the stamped numbers that is on the cross member? Obviously this number dictates the assembly plant and rotation number it was built. If so I believe I can order a firewall tag to match. would that be legal? I think I do need to contact the DMV I just thought I would ask all the other model a guys there advice on what to do.
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Old 01-20-2017, 09:52 PM   #21
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

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Just an update. After speaking with the owner today at the auction house it is a bill of sale and he will title it with whatever #s I choose (is the way he put it) send me what information you have and I'll have a title for you in 6 weeks.
He assured me there will be no issue titling it a 30 or 31

My dilemma is if I use 1931 what numbers would I choose?
Can I use the stamped numbers that is on the cross member? Obviously this number dictates the assembly plant and rotation number it was built. If so I believe I can order a firewall tag to match. would that be legal? I think I do need to contact the DMV I just thought I would ask all the other model a guys there advice on what to do.
The firewall tag was only the body number for bodies built for Ford on a subcontract. These numbers were not tracked nor were they used for registration. Of course some DMV's don't know what they are doing on the old vehicles. The numbers should approximate those in this table: http://mafca.com/data_eng_production.html Let the DMV assign their own number.

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Old 01-20-2017, 10:02 PM   #22
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

Is the engine the factory number in rough cast?
If it's been ground or machined and restamped, then I'd restamp it with a 31 number to go with your later 31 cab. Remember during the depression there was considerable lag time and your engine could have been made at least 4 months before the truck was assembled.

If it was mine, the frame and engine would have a 31 number to go with a 31 title. Restamping to repair a damaged vehicle isn't illegal, but restamping to steal or deceive is.
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Old 01-21-2017, 07:59 AM   #23
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

the cab shows no sign of ever having a tag on firewall which tells me it was built by ford and not a subcontractor.I have yet to contact the DMV for there advice..
i have looked at the engine code #s that indicate mid. yr. dating.
As for the engine # on left side of block, they look clear and untouched.
I do believe frame stamping is of a later dated frame and is a 31..
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Old 01-21-2017, 08:24 AM   #24
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

Good morning Pookie, quite a dilema you have. As the cab is a 1931; I've veiwed your photo album a couple times (check it out guys). The first thing I see about the truck is the 1930 rad shell, then the 1930 splash aprons. My first impressions seeing your truck at a cruise night would be "cool Model A": oh look it's a 1930!! As per reasons I stated above. It would not occur to me about the all steel roof, till I've really spent a couple minutes studying all the details. As you have numbers that claim it to be a 1930 chassis. I would be inclined to follow a path of least resistance with your DMV and register it as a 1930.
You always tell folks a folklore story that it was a proto type for the later 1931's. Lol
Just my insight. Jeff
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Old 01-21-2017, 11:17 AM   #25
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

Hi jDupuis, i recall reading somewhere that the new style rad shells were only used on the vicky's until later in the year. hmmm. And yes the front portion of the splash aprons are made on the front fenders..Also the chassis #s indicate mid to late 30's i'm wondering if this chassis was sitting around with others chassis's waiting to be mated up at a later date when needed. with parts being shipped on rail and ships some times parts were delayed for weeks.
Ford always made (and still do today)change-over to new models at mid year.
We all know parts were stock pilled and used until depleted.
maybe wishful thinking or I've misread old articles.
P.S. i will be out and about this year at car shows to show off the truck..
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Old 01-21-2017, 12:40 PM   #26
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Quote:
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the cab shows no sign of ever having a tag on firewall which tells me it was built by ford and not a subcontractor.I have yet to contact the DMV for there advice..
i have looked at the engine code #s that indicate mid. yr. dating.
As for the engine # on left side of block, they look clear and untouched.
I do believe frame stamping is of a later dated frame and is a 31..
If the frame # is later '31 it matches the steel roof so I would go with that. The DMV likes to use the frame numbers. Can you read it and what is it? Use XXX for the last 3 digits. Photos?

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Old 01-21-2017, 12:59 PM   #27
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

With cowl lights and stainless radiator shell,cowl band and headlights who knows
what has been changed. I would not seek advice from the DMV, use AAA if possible.

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Old 01-22-2017, 07:58 PM   #28
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

I've never heard of using AAA
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Old 01-22-2017, 08:21 PM   #29
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

My Canadian guess would be American Auto Association? If not that...my next guess is it's a battery size? Eh? Jeff
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Old 01-22-2017, 11:51 PM   #30
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I've heard of AAA but thought they were insurance co. not vin. locators..
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Old 01-23-2017, 12:25 AM   #31
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

Quote:
Originally Posted by pookie55 View Post
the cab shows no sign of ever having a tag on firewall which tells me it was built by ford and not a subcontractor.I have yet to contact the DMV for there advice..
i have looked at the engine code #s that indicate mid. yr. dating.
As for the engine # on left side of block, they look clear and untouched.
I do believe frame stamping is of a later dated frame and is a 31..
You have to think of it this way, if the DMV were to inspect the truck where would they go to look for the vin? In my opinion that is the number location you will have to use.

Remember the title is just a piece of paper no one will know and most won't care even when you sell it, that what you say it is, (as proven by documentation) and what the paperwork says don't match.
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Old 01-23-2017, 12:33 AM   #32
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

Here is some info on the radiator cover;

RADIATOR SHELL
For January through June 1930 AA's with the 76-A Open Cab,
82-A Closed Cab or 85-A Panel Delivery used the A commercial
radiator shell which was dipped, gloss black enamel. Refer to
Area 15.
1931 AA body types 270-A, 275-A, 280-A, 285-A, and 300-A
used an AA stainless steel radiator shell. Other AA' s, with 1930-
1931 body types, used an AA dipped, gloss black enamel, steel r---..
radiator shell as shown in figure 4. Both AA radiator shells were
of the same design.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg AA radiator.jpg (29.4 KB, 7 views)
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Old 01-23-2017, 12:57 PM   #33
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I've heard of AAA but thought they were insurance co. not vin. locators..
Check this link for services, see #2. http://www.calif.aaa.com/home/member.../why-join.html

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Old 01-23-2017, 03:52 PM   #34
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

The only number that's visible is the engine vin. number.(April 29')(trucks Definitely not a 29.) truck has no tag on the firewall as it was not built by a subcontractor. I never believed that people would be okay with purchasing a vehicle labeled one thing and it's actually something different. Obviously that's my situation with proving truck as being 30 or 31.
Thanks Mike for the radiator shell break down on A/AA commercial trucks.
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Old 01-23-2017, 04:07 PM   #35
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

AAA offers lots of services including registration and title work -but it varies by state. Yours is here: https://www.hoosier.aaa.com/.

The AAA was founded in 1902 but long before Pennsylvania joined, there was the Pennsylvania Motor Federation (1906) . If you look at some old AAA badges, it will have PMF stamped on them, too.
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Old 01-23-2017, 07:41 PM   #36
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thanks i'll look into the AAA
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Old 01-23-2017, 08:05 PM   #37
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

Pooky55 I believe the truck body was made by Budd co. ,if the truck has an indented fire wall it would definitely be a 31 especially if it has a steel roof like this truck
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Old 01-23-2017, 08:06 PM   #38
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Hopefully this will help!
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:59 PM   #39
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

Thanks jm29henry the truck does have the indented firewall and the steel roof
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:59 PM   #40
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

And yes it was built by budd
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Old 01-25-2017, 02:39 AM   #41
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

Just read an old thread.. what month in 1931 did steel top and & bed pickups come out... Good read good information
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Old 01-25-2017, 12:17 PM   #42
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

The steel top was announced in the Sept 1, 1931 Indianapolis Service Letter.

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Old 01-26-2017, 03:01 AM   #43
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Yes the old thread I was reading was from 2012 on the Ford Barn. It was a good read and was informative on the different mixes Ford put together at the end of a model year and beginning of the new model year. Not much has changed these days.
Only when it's a complete model change will they not use old parts. Obviously they won't fit or color match.
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Old 01-26-2017, 02:53 PM   #44
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

Jm29henry I have here a pic of the indented firewall and steel cab. Roof.
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Old 01-26-2017, 07:44 PM   #45
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WOW Pookie55 that is a beautiful truck I love steel top pick up its pretty rare and is basically a early 32 the cool part is that is that it is the real deal 31, I really hope your able to get the paper work hassle worked out !!!
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Old 01-27-2017, 07:47 AM   #46
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Default Re: Is it a 31', 30' or 29' model A truck

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Thanks jm29henry. after all the work of lifting the body from frame I'm reluctant to reinstall cab without lots of rework i.e. paint touch up new body blocks, new bolts & new frame welting. I'm being told by several friends not to start repairing items and just put it back together. To me I'm only doing simple touch up things and not a restoration(yet anyway). They say drive it enjoy it or you'll never use it after a complete restoration.
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