55 T bird question

[y'sguy]

The car looks pretty straight btw! good start.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by ronn

after reading about the problems with installing 302, 351 and 289 motors, think I will wait till an original y block engine comes along.
I can wait..............

Just so you don't think replacing a missing Y-block engine in a '55 T-Bird will be a piece of cake...
The bare block is effectively the same as the full sized cars & trucks but many of the parts that bolt on to the block are "T-Bird" specific and usually pricey:

Timing cover & front motor support (extended bosses on 4 lower bolts, for front engine support)
Oil pan, pickup tube & dipstick (T-birds & trucks have a rear sump pan, but they aren't the same)
Valley pan cover (road draft tube hole at rear, 6 inch tall oil filler tube)
Water pump spacer (one inch thick, between the water pump & timing cover)
Exhaust manifolds (the '57 version was upgraded from the '55/'56 style)
Intake manifold, carburetor and distributor sets (they are 'one-yr-only' specific: '55, '56 & '57)

You can try 40 Deluxe's suggestion...

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

..... Jersey is full of cheap rust bucket vehicles with good engines. Buy one, pull the engine and accessories, and junk the rest.

I was lucky enough to find an engine that had recently been removed from another T-Bird, to replace the not-Thunderbird engine in my '55.

Misc parts are available online (ebay, craigslist, etc.) and from several T-Bird restoration suppliers.
Free parts catalogs are available.
.

[ronn]

thanks DMS and everyone else-my brother has a 302 fuel injected engine with a trans connected.

I'ld rather wait it out and get a 55-57 T bird engine. I have seen them in the past, being pulled for modified motors. I have enough other stuff to do, that I can wait a year if need be. My experience is that something always comes up and I'ld prefer to keep the car somewhat original and not end up building a hot rod if at all possible.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by ronn

... I'ld rather wait it out and get a 55-57 T bird engine. I have seen them in the past, being pulled for modified motors. I have enough other stuff to do, that I can wait a year if need be. My experience is that something always comes up and I'ld prefer to keep the car somewhat original and not end up building a hot rod if at all possible.

I understand, and was sort of considering a 302 or 351 for mine until I made an unrelated call on a craigslist ad selling some chrome trim.
The guy had the trim part, we agreed on a price and he asked 'if I needed anything else' so I jokingly asked if he had an extra Y-block Thunderbird engine, he did and I bought it.
.

[ronn]

so another question dms,

what are the chances of a 272 truck engine bolting up? there is one nearby. I know I am losing power, but not that concerned over that, as long as the car will move down the road.
Lucky you on finding the motor. I was hoping to see more of them out there.

[fordrodsteven]

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The truck 272 will bolt in but as mentioned earlier there are some brackets and accessories that are T-bird specific. If you should decide to use something other than the "Y" block you should know there are a bunch of other problems you will run into. If you choose a 289 / 302 ford engine and trans you will have to fabricate some way to bolt it into the car and then there are the other fitment issues. The steering box is in the way if you don't get the engine in the right place. The pan might have to be changed. There's more but that is just to get the engine in. The small block Ford engine is lighter than the original "Y" block so the nose of the car will lift up a little bit also. I can't remember if you said whether or not your car has been converted to 12V so you might have to do that also. There is a write-up somewhere on one of the Thunderbird forums that list all that's involved with the conversion to 12V.

[ronn]

thank you ford, so it sounds like the 272 should bolt in. regarding the original trans, 3 spd with overdrive, will that also bolt up to the 272 or do I need an adapter of some sort?

[pj's junkers]

check the swap meet a 292 in mass. for $200

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by fordrodsteven

I can't remember if you said whether or not your car has been converted to 12V so you might have to do that also. There is a write-up somewhere on one of the Thunderbird forums that list all that's involved with the conversion to 12V.

See this link... https://www.ctci.org/gilsgarage/6to12.php
Fords were changed to 12v in '56. The temp sensor from a '56+ engine won't work with a '55 dash temp gauge.

Originally Posted by ronn

so another question dms,
what are the chances of a 272 truck engine bolting up? there is one nearby. I know I am losing power, but not that concerned over that, as long as the car will move down the road.

99% sure you can use the 3spd OD trans that came with the car.
Double check the fit of the clutch disc onto the splines of the trans input shaft & input shaft to pilot bushing in the crank.
If the bell housing you're planning on using is the one in the truck and it has cast on mounting ears, it won't fit.
99% sure some of the clutch linkage parts will be different.

At the least you'll need to change a few other things...
A 272 truck oil pan looks like the middle grey one in the attached photo, T-Bird pan is the red one in front. The block sits lower in a T-Bird chassis so the middle & front of the pan isn't as tall, to clear the steering linkage & frame cross member.
You probably won't want to use the crossover style exhaust from a truck in a Bird, if it'll even fit.
Not sure if the carb setup from a truck 272 will fit under a T-Bird hood, it may depend on the year.
IIRC the earlier carbs (pre '57 ?) are too tall.

[ronn]

saw the 292 in swap meet, seller said I would need an adaptor plate to make it fit the t bird..............

the 272 is local and comes with the bell housing, whether or not that will bolt up, im not so sure, coming from a trk.

[flatrod]

The 272 may be a good fit for now. It should have the right front cover and engine mount on it. You would need at the least, a Bird oil pan, not sure why the Bird has the 1 inches spacer on the water pump, but you will need that, and the damper that is longer for the Bird. Also you will need a Bird thermostat housing, and generator brackets. As pointed out the truck bellhousing will have the mounting ears that will be in the way. Could be cut off, but make sure your trans will bolt up first! The one dmsfrr has pictured does not have the correct trans pattern as I remember.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by ronn

saw the 292 in swap meet, seller said I would need an adaptor plate to make it fit the t bird..............
the 272 is local and comes with the bell housing, whether or not that will bolt up, im not so sure, coming from a trk.

The bolt pattern layout on the back of a Y-block engine should be the same all years '54 to '64. (not all holes are used for every bell housing application)
You'll obviously need a 'car' style bell housing that matches both the trans & engine. IIRC the 'full-sized car' and T-Bird 3spd manual trans bell housings for Y-blocks may be the same, never had my hands on one.
Not sure what kind of adapter plate he'd be talking about. Ford put them together without add-on adapters.

Water pump spacer, generator mount & pulley and the crankshaft damper pulley...
I'm guessing Ford made them T-Bird specific just to get them closer to the radiator, because the engine compartment is longer. Those parts can be kind of pricey, especially the crank pulley (if you can find one) and it will likely need to be rebuilt. Approx $150/$200 for a used part and approx $175 + shipping to get it rebuilt. A new re-pop T-Bird crank pulley is available for about $520.
You may(???) be able to get away without using those parts, just using what might already be on the engine. But the fan will likely be too far from the radiator to get good air flow thru it, esp if the shroud is missing.
An aftermarket electric fan kit could be a good option in that case.

[ronn]

all great advice. Thank you everyone!

going to look into that 272 this week.

[ronn]

found a 61 y block firetruck motor with 27k original miles.............

thoughts for bolt up? same as the 272?

thanks.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by ronn

found a 61 y block firetruck motor with 27k original miles.............

thoughts for bolt up? same as the 272?

thanks.

272 and 292 blocks are externally 100% identical.

[ronn]

40, thank you for the quick reply.

this one is real close by

[scicala]

Originally Posted by ronn

found a 61 y block firetruck motor with 27k original miles.............

thoughts for bolt up? same as the 272?

thanks.

Yes, as long as it's a 292 Y-Block. Make sure it's not a LIncoln Y-Block that was available in heavy trucks in '61.
If it's a 292, it may even have the desirable 292 steel crankshaft.

Sal

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by ronn

found a 61 y block firetruck motor with 27k original miles.............
thoughts for bolt up? same as the 272?
thanks.

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

272 and 292 blocks are externally 100% identical.

Originally Posted by scicala

Yes, as long as it's a 292 Y-Block. Make sure it's not a LIncoln Y-Block that was available in heavy trucks in '61.
If it's a 292, it may even have the desirable 292 steel crankshaft.
Sal

FYI, Lincoln Y-block engine link... http://www.ford-y-block.com/lincoln.htm

Yes, make sure it's a 292 (check the block casting number)
Ford Y-block '55 to '64 bolt-up is the same, it's the parts that bolt on to the block that are different.
How complete is the firetruck engine, what other parts does it have on it?

If the truck carb & air cleaner come with the engine, chances are they won't fit under the hood as-is. You may only need to change the air cleaner. A firetruck engine may have an rpm governor on the carb or distributor. It might even have a tach drive distributor, a good thing.

At the least you'll need the Thunderbird specific oil pan w/ it's pickup tube and the correct exhaust manifolds.
The '55/'57 T-Bird oil pan & pickup tube aren't reproduced and can be pricey if you can find one. Theoretically ??? it may be possible to modify a rear sump oil pan from a pickup truck to fit a T-bird, but I certainly wouldn't look forward to trying it.

http://www.ford-y-block.com/Block%20identification.htm

http://www.ford-y-block.com/technical.htm

http://www.y-block.info/casting/exhaust.html
.

[ronn]

how to tell the 292 from the Lincoln y block?

serial numbers or?

700 series firetruck engine

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by ronn

how to tell the 292 from the Lincoln y block?
serial numbers or?
700 series firetruck engine

If it's original chances are good it's the bigger Lincoln engine, but it won't hurt to look & be sure.

The engines don't look the same, but that won't help you unless you already know what both of them should look like. The block casting numbers are a different series so check at the two engine ID links I posted above. There are a couple images of the Lincoln engine.

Also, and likely easier than trying to find block numbers who-knows-where on a grubby engine...
The exhaust manifold bolt holes in the heads of a Ford Y-block engine are in a straight line,
the Lincoln engine has them zig-zagged. (It's the only clue I know, never seen one in-person.)
.