The Ford Barn

Bob Grieb · 08-21-2016, 01:09 PM

On July fourth I drove my Model A in a parade that lasted 1 3/4 hours. I t was at a very slow pace in hilly conditions. As a result I was always using the clutch which caused damage to a nerve in my left leg (common peroneal nerve palsy). It causes drop foot and the doctors tell me that I cannot drive the Model A without causing additional damage. They tell me that because of my age (75) the damage most likely will not repair itself.

My Question: I have heard that the Ford V8 clutch requires much less effort to depress and would like input about the validity of that statement.
I really hate to think of giving up my Model A's.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Bob

Bob C · 08-21-2016, 01:19 PM

I have heard that the diaphragm pressure plate take even less effort.
They also make a clutch release arm that is a little longer for less effort.
https://www.brattons.com/clutch-release-shaft-arm.html

Bob

J Franklin · 08-21-2016, 01:23 PM

Stop driving in parades, it is hard on the car as well. Other clutch setups can be easier to use. I don't know where you can get the diaphragm plate but it sounds like a good solution.

Tinbasher · 08-21-2016, 01:24 PM

If you check around, you may be able to find a hydraulic clutch set-up that will bolt in with out damaging the vehicle. This set-up takes a lot less effort.

John Poole

Marshall V. Daut · 08-21-2016, 01:25 PM

I'm sorry to report this, but there is not all that much difference between the two clutches that I have seen, and I have multiples of both. If there IS a difference, it is so slight that it's negligible. It would be a shame to go through the change procedure and then be disappointed by seeing very little improvement. There are all kinds of finger clutches for the Model A out there, from tractor applications to actual Model A. Not all spring tensions are the same. I suspect those who claim a marked improvement with a V-8 clutch had a tired, sluggish Model A clutch or one with the wrong spring tension.
As it doesn't appear that your knee problem will heal itself, you may want to consider going to an automatic transmission. There are articles about how to do this at a fairly reasonable cost. In the long run in your case, that might be the best way to go. You're young enough still that you have years of Model A fun ahead of you. You don't want to give that up just because of clutch pedal problems. You can enjoy a Model A with an automatic transmission for years to come, maybe decades!
Marshall

Marvin/TN · 08-21-2016, 03:48 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

There is a company that offers a kit to install all the popular Auto Trans in a Model A.
The Ford C-4, GM 350,400, 700, 200, and maybe others. I think there was a link on the Ford Barn forum about it. I was looking for a kit to put behind my 59AB in my 46 Coupe.So far I have only found a kit to install the Ford C-4 behind it. It's a little hard to drive a str shift wearing a leg prothesis (Lower Rt leg) For me the problem would be stopping on a hill and trying to use three pedals. I left foot brake in my modern car and truck. My 46 coupe and Model A are not on the road at present that is a couple of bridges I will have to cross.

Y-Blockhead · 08-21-2016, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvin/TN

There is a company that offers a kit to install all the popular Auto Trans in a Model A.

Bendtsen's make a kit to adapt any of the Chevy Automagics to the A or B engine http://www.transmissionadapters.com/Model%20A.htm

Wilcap is another place to check, I don't remember if they make a Model A adaptor tho.

Marvin/TN · 08-22-2016, 02:52 AM

Wilcap is another place to check, I don't remember if they make a Model A adaptor tho
. I have looked at their web site and I do not believe they make a kit for the model A. Also if I remember right their kit for the 59AB only adapting the Ford C-4 and nothing else unless they have changed something. I really wanted to use the GM auto trans in my 46 if for no other reason other than the fact I already have one. Of course you either have to change the rear end or adapt the rear end to open drive either way that you go.

Mitch//pa · 08-21-2016, 02:18 PM

What Marshall said::

If the diagnosis and prognosis is correct and you have a choice of giving up your A vs installing an auto it's a no brainer... The v-8 clutch is not that much easier IMO and considering your condition it is not the way to go..you'll probably do more harm than good sorry to say

Big hammer · 08-21-2016, 02:32 PM

My son just the other day drove my A for the first time! And I enjoyed just to ride :-)
Hire a chauffeur if no children want to drive it! Just another option.

jw hash · 08-21-2016, 03:55 PM

a Model A friend and neighbor of mine had the same problem. he was able to find some lighter springs for his pressure plate, and I built him a light weight pressure plate. it worked out real good for him. just don`t try pulling a trailer or doing hill climb.

Marcus · 08-21-2016, 04:37 PM

Bob - I just have to chime in with a little different perspective: find another Doctor. I had the elegantly termed "foot dropsy" caused by perineal nerve damage as a result of combat action in Vietnam: the nerve heals itself at the rate of 2 mm per month, give or take. Mine took 6 months to heal; recently I hit the outside of my knee on an engine block and re-injured the nerve. Doctor rigged up a device to pull the foot upwards and keep it up except when I walk (without dragging the foot!) and announced it will take a month or so - meantime, do as I wished except don't strain the knee. So, no parades for a while, except in the auto-shifted 68 Mustang ragtop. All is not lost - you WILL get better! (By the way - I'll be 70 in February.)

Jeff/Illinois · 08-22-2016, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus

Bob - I just have to chime in with a little different perspective: find another Doctor. I had the elegantly termed "foot dropsy" caused by perineal nerve damage as a result of combat action in Vietnam: the nerve heals itself at the rate of 2 mm per month, give or take. Mine took 6 months to heal; recently I hit the outside of my knee on an engine block and re-injured the nerve. Doctor rigged up a device to pull the foot upwards and keep it up except when I walk (without dragging the foot!) and announced it will take a month or so - meantime, do as I wished except don't strain the knee. So, no parades for a while, except in the auto-shifted 68 Mustang ragtop. All is not lost - you WILL get better! (By the way - I'll be 70 in February.)

I'm going thru the same as Marcus. Same nerve damage. The doctors told me '6 months to a year IF you ever get it back'. I too was told the 2mm per month repair rate. It takes a long time. Pretty discouraging. I am holding on, wait and see.

This is basically September in the scheme of things, so NW Illinois will be getting salted roads in about ten weeks or so when the first snow flurries hit. The season will be over

We'll see how next year goes

tbirdtbird · 08-21-2016, 04:48 PM

I have a lot of respect for Mitch and Marshall but I have found the V8 clutch to be way less difficult to operate.

As for a diaphragm style, some are using an S10 PP but i have seen those installed by people who do not know what they are doing and it ended up harder to push than stock A. The ends of the fingers on the S10 need to be ground back 1/8". There is also a 1/8" collar that needs to be welded on.

I have driven the S10 style and did not find it was that much easier than the V8.

Since we have such a difference of experience, I would find someone with the V8 style installed and try for yourself. Be advised that the flywheel needs to be modified to accept either of the newer PP, and then you will want to have the FW and PP balanced together.

Having said all that, parades are killers for the left leg, period. 1 3/4 hrs would have killed my leg for sure. I would stay away from parades at all costs no matter what type of clutch you have. I will only do a 15 min parade with my V8 style. And #11 is correct, nerves heal VERY slowly

txkhog · 08-21-2016, 05:40 PM

Can you install a hand clutch or a hand hydraulic clutch

BILL WILLIAMSON · 08-22-2016, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txkhog

Can you install a hand clutch or a hand hydraulic clutch

I once added a SMALL Bendix Hyrdo-Vac booster to the hydraulic clutch system, on a '62 Jaguar XKE, for a man that had a weak left leg. It was quite easy to do.
That's a good thing to do on a Model A, with hydraulics that have POOR stopping qualities.
Bill W.

Bob Grieb · 08-21-2016, 05:46 PM

Thanks for all the great input!!!! I like the encouragement from Marcus and hope it will heal itself. I will review all the input in a more detail and see if something will work for me. I would really hate to give up the Model A's. One bit of advice I have already implemented is "no more parades".

I will report back with what solution works for me.

Thanks

Bob

tbirdtbird · 08-21-2016, 07:58 PM

I find the Bendsten's kits quite interesting. Has anyone tried this setup?

I have to wonder if the A motor has the torque and HP to actually make those big heavy chevy hydromatics do anything.......

I also wonder what has to be done to the cross member.......

Tom Wesenberg · 08-21-2016, 08:48 PM

I drove my friend's 1949 Chevy pickup in a long Halloween parade every year, until he sold the truck. That had the easiest clutch of anything I'd ever driven. That's the clutch to use if you change, and use the same leverage as the Chevy had.

You have some good options with becoming a passenger, installing an automatic, or changing pressure plates.

larrys40 · 08-21-2016, 09:05 PM

Just a suggestion but you can try the longer clutch release arm, either from an earlier '28 if you can find one or brattons now has an aftermarket unit that is a little longer and does help. I replaced one on an "A" earlier last week and in fact it did make a difference.
The pressure plate was actually stiffer than most and I replaced the arm with the brattons unit and it is now easier than a typical clutch. the adjustment on the longer arms is close so even 1/2 turn makes a difference.

Best of luck!
larry Shepard

08-21-2016, 01:19 PM	#2
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,799	Re: Problem With Clutch (Medical Problem) I have heard that the diaphragm pressure plate take even less effort. They also make a clutch release arm that is a little longer for less effort. https://www.brattons.com/clutch-release-shaft-arm.html Bob Last edited by Bob C; 08-21-2016 at 01:24 PM.

08-21-2016, 01:23 PM	#3
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 6,008	Re: Problem With Clutch (Medical Problem) Stop driving in parades, it is hard on the car as well. Other clutch setups can be easier to use. I don't know where you can get the diaphragm plate but it sounds like a good solution.

08-21-2016, 01:24 PM	#4
Tinbasher Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Innisfil, Ontario Canada Posts: 1,175	Re: Problem With Clutch (Medical Problem) If you check around, you may be able to find a hydraulic clutch set-up that will bolt in with out damaging the vehicle. This set-up takes a lot less effort. John Poole

08-21-2016, 01:25 PM	#5
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,159	Re: Problem With Clutch (Medical Problem) I'm sorry to report this, but there is not all that much difference between the two clutches that I have seen, and I have multiples of both. If there IS a difference, it is so slight that it's negligible. It would be a shame to go through the change procedure and then be disappointed by seeing very little improvement. There are all kinds of finger clutches for the Model A out there, from tractor applications to actual Model A. Not all spring tensions are the same. I suspect those who claim a marked improvement with a V-8 clutch had a tired, sluggish Model A clutch or one with the wrong spring tension. As it doesn't appear that your knee problem will heal itself, you may want to consider going to an automatic transmission. There are articles about how to do this at a fairly reasonable cost. In the long run in your case, that might be the best way to go. You're young enough still that you have years of Model A fun ahead of you. You don't want to give that up just because of clutch pedal problems. You can enjoy a Model A with an automatic transmission for years to come, maybe decades! Marshall

08-21-2016, 03:48 PM	#6
Marvin/TN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chattanooga, TN area Posts: 832	Re: Problem With Clutch (Medical Problem) Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) There is a company that offers a kit to install all the popular Auto Trans in a Model A. The Ford C-4, GM 350,400, 700, 200, and maybe others. I think there was a link on the Ford Barn forum about it. I was looking for a kit to put behind my 59AB in my 46 Coupe.So far I have only found a kit to install the Ford C-4 behind it. It's a little hard to drive a str shift wearing a leg prothesis (Lower Rt leg) For me the problem would be stopping on a hill and trying to use three pedals. I left foot brake in my modern car and truck. My 46 coupe and Model A are not on the road at present that is a couple of bridges I will have to cross.

08-21-2016, 01:09 PM	#1
Bob Grieb Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Temecula, California Posts: 325	Problem With Clutch (Medical Problem) On July fourth I drove my Model A in a parade that lasted 1 3/4 hours. I t was at a very slow pace in hilly conditions. As a result I was always using the clutch which caused damage to a nerve in my left leg (common peroneal nerve palsy). It causes drop foot and the doctors tell me that I cannot drive the Model A without causing additional damage. They tell me that because of my age (75) the damage most likely will not repair itself. My Question: I have heard that the Ford V8 clutch requires much less effort to depress and would like input about the validity of that statement. I really hate to think of giving up my Model A's. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Bob __________________ 1929 Tudor 1930 Pickup

08-22-2016, 02:52 AM	#8
Marvin/TN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chattanooga, TN area Posts: 832	Re: Problem With Clutch (Medical Problem) Wilcap is another place to check, I don't remember if they make a Model A adaptor tho . I have looked at their web site and I do not believe they make a kit for the model A. Also if I remember right their kit for the 59AB only adapting the Ford C-4 and nothing else unless they have changed something. I really wanted to use the GM auto trans in my 46 if for no other reason other than the fact I already have one. Of course you either have to change the rear end or adapt the rear end to open drive either way that you go.

08-21-2016, 02:18 PM	#9
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Problem With Clutch (Medical Problem) What Marshall said:: If the diagnosis and prognosis is correct and you have a choice of giving up your A vs installing an auto it's a no brainer... The v-8 clutch is not that much easier IMO and considering your condition it is not the way to go..you'll probably do more harm than good sorry to say Last edited by Mitch//pa; 08-21-2016 at 05:35 PM.

08-21-2016, 02:32 PM	#10
Big hammer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Land of Lincoln Posts: 3,160	Re: Problem With Clutch (Medical Problem) My son just the other day drove my A for the first time! And I enjoyed just to ride :-) Hire a chauffeur if no children want to drive it! Just another option.

08-21-2016, 03:55 PM	#11
jw hash Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auburn Washington Posts: 2,552	Re: Problem With Clutch (Medical Problem) a Model A friend and neighbor of mine had the same problem. he was able to find some lighter springs for his pressure plate, and I built him a light weight pressure plate. it worked out real good for him. just don`t try pulling a trailer or doing hill climb.

08-21-2016, 04:37 PM	#12
Marcus Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Walnut Grove, Mississippi Posts: 607	Re: Problem With Clutch (Medical Problem) Bob - I just have to chime in with a little different perspective: find another Doctor. I had the elegantly termed "foot dropsy" caused by perineal nerve damage as a result of combat action in Vietnam: the nerve heals itself at the rate of 2 mm per month, give or take. Mine took 6 months to heal; recently I hit the outside of my knee on an engine block and re-injured the nerve. Doctor rigged up a device to pull the foot upwards and keep it up except when I walk (without dragging the foot!) and announced it will take a month or so - meantime, do as I wished except don't strain the knee. So, no parades for a while, except in the auto-shifted 68 Mustang ragtop. All is not lost - you WILL get better! (By the way - I'll be 70 in February.) __________________ WARM REGARDS, MARCUS

08-21-2016, 04:48 PM	#14
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Problem With Clutch (Medical Problem) I have a lot of respect for Mitch and Marshall but I have found the V8 clutch to be way less difficult to operate. As for a diaphragm style, some are using an S10 PP but i have seen those installed by people who do not know what they are doing and it ended up harder to push than stock A. The ends of the fingers on the S10 need to be ground back 1/8". There is also a 1/8" collar that needs to be welded on. I have driven the S10 style and did not find it was that much easier than the V8. Since we have such a difference of experience, I would find someone with the V8 style installed and try for yourself. Be advised that the flywheel needs to be modified to accept either of the newer PP, and then you will want to have the FW and PP balanced together. Having said all that, parades are killers for the left leg, period. 1 3/4 hrs would have killed my leg for sure. I would stay away from parades at all costs no matter what type of clutch you have. I will only do a 15 min parade with my V8 style. And #11 is correct, nerves heal VERY slowly __________________ '31 180A

08-21-2016, 05:40 PM	#15
txkhog Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Texarkana, TX Posts: 61	Re: Problem With Clutch (Medical Problem) Can you install a hand clutch or a hand hydraulic clutch

08-21-2016, 05:46 PM	#17
Bob Grieb Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Temecula, California Posts: 325	Re: Problem With Clutch (Medical Problem) Thanks for all the great input!!!! I like the encouragement from Marcus and hope it will heal itself. I will review all the input in a more detail and see if something will work for me. I would really hate to give up the Model A's. One bit of advice I have already implemented is "no more parades". I will report back with what solution works for me. Thanks Bob __________________ 1929 Tudor 1930 Pickup

08-21-2016, 07:58 PM	#18
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Problem With Clutch (Medical Problem) I find the Bendsten's kits quite interesting. Has anyone tried this setup? I have to wonder if the A motor has the torque and HP to actually make those big heavy chevy hydromatics do anything....... I also wonder what has to be done to the cross member....... __________________ '31 180A

08-21-2016, 08:48 PM	#19
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Problem With Clutch (Medical Problem) I drove my friend's 1949 Chevy pickup in a long Halloween parade every year, until he sold the truck. That had the easiest clutch of anything I'd ever driven. That's the clutch to use if you change, and use the same leverage as the Chevy had. You have some good options with becoming a passenger, installing an automatic, or changing pressure plates.

08-21-2016, 09:05 PM	#20
larrys40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St Charles , Missouri Posts: 1,998	Re: Problem With Clutch (Medical Problem) Just a suggestion but you can try the longer clutch release arm, either from an earlier '28 if you can find one or brattons now has an aftermarket unit that is a little longer and does help. I replaced one on an "A" earlier last week and in fact it did make a difference. The pressure plate was actually stiffer than most and I replaced the arm with the brattons unit and it is now easier than a typical clutch. the adjustment on the longer arms is close so even 1/2 turn makes a difference. Best of luck! larry Shepard