The Ford Barn

Canton_Model_A's · 10-10-2022, 08:32 AM

Hello gang,

I am about to do a removal of my rear brakes/backing plate. My '29 currently has no linkages to the E-Brake (Don't ask why, it just didn't have them when I purchased it) I ordered 2 new complete kits from Mike's down in Georgia. My question is, with the rebuilt 'new' set, there is one bolt holding the e-brake to the backing plate. I just want to bolt these guys in to get her back end back onto solid ground. How hard or easy is it to do this. I have the gear puller to pull the drum off. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Dave

WHN · 10-10-2022, 09:37 AM

You might be able to just put them off if they have not been torqued properly, 100 lbs.

Otherwise used a hub puller. Take your time and with some effort they should come off.

Doing the backing plate and re installing the emergency brakes is straight forward.

Make sure you re torque the axel nuts. Good time to check the axel keys. I would replace with new ones while you have everything apart. Check your brake springs while your at it. That said, I would check everything before putting them back together.

Enjoy.

Canton_Model_A's · 10-10-2022, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WHN

You might be able to just put them off if they have not been torqued properly, 100 lbs.

Otherwise used a hub puller. Take your time and with some effort they should come off.

Doing the backing plate and re installing the emergency brakes is straight forward.

Make sure you re torque the axel nuts. Good time to check the axel keys. I would replace with new ones while you have everything apart. Check your brake springs while your at it. That said, I would check everything before putting them back together.

Enjoy.

the new assemblies are 100% new. so it should just be a bolt on.

Will N · 10-10-2022, 09:56 AM

The one bolt you mention is likely there to hold it together for shipping only. The whole shebang (backing plate, parking brake band assembly, grease baffle) is bolted to the rear axle and radius rod with four bolts and castle nuts. (assembly diagram here: https://www.brattons.com/REAR-BRAKE-...tinfo/AD%2D16/) I've never had any luck getting the parking brake and service brake levers through the fork at the end of the radius rod with the rear brake completely assembled on the backing plate and the radius rod in place. I've been told that it's easier to remove the radius rod, put the backing plate assembly on the axle and loosely secure it with the two rear bolts, put the radius rod back in place and then secure the two front bolts.

Rob Doe · 10-10-2022, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will N

The one bolt you mention is likely there to hold it together for shipping only. The whole shebang (backing plate, parking brake band assembly, grease baffle) is bolted to the rear axle and radius rod with four bolts and castle nuts. (assembly diagram here: https://www.brattons.com/REAR-BRAKE-...tinfo/AD%2D16/) I've never had any luck getting the parking brake and service brake levers through the fork at the end of the radius rod with the rear brake completely assembled on the backing plate and the radius rod in place. I've been told that it's easier to remove the radius rod, put the backing plate assembly on the axle and loosely secure it with the two rear bolts, put the radius rod back in place and then secure the two front bolts.

I recently worked with my rear backing plates. I did not have too much difficulty, but it did take a few moments of experimenting. As I remember, I read the 'red book', but I may have learned from reading elsewhere. You need to put the service brake lever all the way forward and then slip it through the fork in the radius rod then slip the plate over the bearing race.

There is a bit of a secret to it. Hopefully others more experienced will comment.

katy · 10-10-2022, 11:41 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

FWIW, When trying to remove a rear hub, with a puller, and it doesn't want to come off, I read recently to pour 2 kettles full of boiling water over the hub. Never tried it, don't know personally if it works, but I suspect that it's worth trying.

Joe K · 10-10-2022, 02:44 PM

A torch could heat it up appropriately. I would want to have "tempsticks" which are used by weldors to determine Pre-heat temperature. You would buy the 400 degree stick which you use to NOT go above that temperature.

400F is kind of the metallurgical "transition temperature" where crystalline/grain changes occur which may degrade the parent metal.

A surface temp IR electronic handheld could be used similarly and perhaps more accurately? The last welding contractor I supervised used this and claimed it was more accurate. ("skin effect" he said.)

Joe K

katy · 10-11-2022, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe K

A torch could heat it up appropriately.

That's all fine and dandy if'n one has a torch or access to one, we're not all that fortuneate.

Canton_Model_A's · 10-11-2022, 09:26 AM

I managed to get the hub and assembly off. put the new one on, now I need to know how to correctly 'arc' the shoes to the drum. I can't get my old drum back onto the axel. Any pointers?

Will N · 10-11-2022, 09:36 AM

Make sure the adjusting wedge for the service brake shoes is screwed out all the way. I've heard of people having trouble getting the drums on because the parking brake lining was too thick. As for arcing the linings, you might try getting some sand paper with a sticky backing. Stick them to the inside of the drums, install the drums and turn the drums while slowly expanding the shoes outward with the adjusting wedge and operating lever.

Canton_Model_A's · 10-11-2022, 09:39 AM

I did that with the adjusting wedge. still couldn't get the old hub back on the old girl. I don't know if they are centered, I purchased the complete kit from Mike's in GA. 5# hammer should work but don't want to beat the old girl to death :-)

WHN · 10-11-2022, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canton_Model_A's

I did that with the adjusting wedge. still couldn't get the old hub back on the old girl. I don't know if they are centered, I purchased the complete kit from Mike's in GA. 5# hammer should work but don't want to beat the old girl to death :-)

You shouldn’t need a hammer! They should just slide on. Something is in your way.

Don’t use a hammer.

Ivan in southeast va. · 10-11-2022, 03:16 PM

With the adjusters turned all the way out and shoes arced, if the drums still don't go on, you might need to true up the drums a little.

nkaminar · 10-11-2022, 05:47 PM

Buy this: https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...6169&cat=41753

If you have excessive drag do this: Chalk the emergency brake pads, install the drum with the nut just tight, turn the drum over, remove the drum, sand the parts of the pads where the chalk has rubbed off. Repeat until problem is solved.

The emergency brakes are really just parking brakes and will be damaged if they are used to forcibly stop the car.

Bill G · 10-11-2022, 09:21 PM

First isolate whether it is the service brakes or the e-brakes that are holding you up. Remove the e-brake band and try putting the hub on. If it goes on ok, then you know it is the e-brake.

Arcing brake shoes is normally done by a machine or brake shop with the necessary (and very old) equipment. There is the old trial and error method with a multi-tool with 80 grit sandpaper. (not recommended)

Ricky Mullen · 10-12-2022, 04:41 AM

There is a tool that is designed to square up your brakes before you install the drum. I’ve got the only one I have ever seen. I don’t know what it is called. I would post a picture if I could.

Canton_Model_A's · 10-12-2022, 07:10 AM

I got a hold of one of my local club guys, unfortunately he is out of state currently but is willing to help me with trying to get this done. I am not touching the RR drum until I get him over to the house. Until then, I have a bendix and 4 spark plugs to replace

"The never ending project that, ultimately never ends" <-- hahaha

10-10-2022, 08:32 AM	#1
Canton_Model_A's Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Canton, Michigan Posts: 136	1929 Rear hub Removal Hello gang, I am about to do a removal of my rear brakes/backing plate. My '29 currently has no linkages to the E-Brake (Don't ask why, it just didn't have them when I purchased it) I ordered 2 new complete kits from Mike's down in Georgia. My question is, with the rebuilt 'new' set, there is one bolt holding the e-brake to the backing plate. I just want to bolt these guys in to get her back end back onto solid ground. How hard or easy is it to do this. I have the gear puller to pull the drum off. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks! Dave

10-10-2022, 09:37 AM	#2
WHN Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Connecticut Shoreline Posts: 1,841	Re: 1929 Rear hub Removal You might be able to just put them off if they have not been torqued properly, 100 lbs. Otherwise used a hub puller. Take your time and with some effort they should come off. Doing the backing plate and re installing the emergency brakes is straight forward. Make sure you re torque the axel nuts. Good time to check the axel keys. I would replace with new ones while you have everything apart. Check your brake springs while your at it. That said, I would check everything before putting them back together. Enjoy.

10-10-2022, 09:56 AM	#4
Will N Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,116	Re: 1929 Rear hub Removal The one bolt you mention is likely there to hold it together for shipping only. The whole shebang (backing plate, parking brake band assembly, grease baffle) is bolted to the rear axle and radius rod with four bolts and castle nuts. (assembly diagram here: https://www.brattons.com/REAR-BRAKE-...tinfo/AD%2D16/) I've never had any luck getting the parking brake and service brake levers through the fork at the end of the radius rod with the rear brake completely assembled on the backing plate and the radius rod in place. I've been told that it's easier to remove the radius rod, put the backing plate assembly on the axle and loosely secure it with the two rear bolts, put the radius rod back in place and then secure the two front bolts.

10-10-2022, 11:41 AM	#6
katy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Red Deer, Alberta Posts: 5,082	Re: 1929 Rear hub Removal Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) FWIW, When trying to remove a rear hub, with a puller, and it doesn't want to come off, I read recently to pour 2 kettles full of boiling water over the hub. Never tried it, don't know personally if it works, but I suspect that it's worth trying. __________________ If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!. Got my education out behind the barn! Last edited by katy; 10-10-2022 at 11:41 AM. Reason: Correction

10-10-2022, 02:44 PM	#7
Joe K Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 4,188	Re: 1929 Rear hub Removal A torch could heat it up appropriately. I would want to have "tempsticks" which are used by weldors to determine Pre-heat temperature. You would buy the 400 degree stick which you use to NOT go above that temperature. 400F is kind of the metallurgical "transition temperature" where crystalline/grain changes occur which may degrade the parent metal. A surface temp IR electronic handheld could be used similarly and perhaps more accurately? The last welding contractor I supervised used this and claimed it was more accurate. ("skin effect" he said.) Joe K __________________ Shudda kept the horse.

10-11-2022, 09:26 AM	#9
Canton_Model_A's Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Canton, Michigan Posts: 136	Re: 1929 Rear hub Removal I managed to get the hub and assembly off. put the new one on, now I need to know how to correctly 'arc' the shoes to the drum. I can't get my old drum back onto the axel. Any pointers?

10-11-2022, 09:36 AM	#10
Will N Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,116	Re: 1929 Rear hub Removal Make sure the adjusting wedge for the service brake shoes is screwed out all the way. I've heard of people having trouble getting the drums on because the parking brake lining was too thick. As for arcing the linings, you might try getting some sand paper with a sticky backing. Stick them to the inside of the drums, install the drums and turn the drums while slowly expanding the shoes outward with the adjusting wedge and operating lever.

10-11-2022, 09:39 AM	#11
Canton_Model_A's Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Canton, Michigan Posts: 136	Re: 1929 Rear hub Removal I did that with the adjusting wedge. still couldn't get the old hub back on the old girl. I don't know if they are centered, I purchased the complete kit from Mike's in GA. 5# hammer should work but don't want to beat the old girl to death :-)

10-11-2022, 03:16 PM	#13
Ivan in southeast va. Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Portsmouth, Virginia Posts: 303	Re: 1929 Rear hub Removal With the adjusters turned all the way out and shoes arced, if the drums still don't go on, you might need to true up the drums a little.

10-11-2022, 05:47 PM	#14
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 4,052	Re: 1929 Rear hub Removal Buy this: https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...6169&cat=41753 If you have excessive drag do this: Chalk the emergency brake pads, install the drum with the nut just tight, turn the drum over, remove the drum, sand the parts of the pads where the chalk has rubbed off. Repeat until problem is solved. The emergency brakes are really just parking brakes and will be damaged if they are used to forcibly stop the car. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

10-11-2022, 09:21 PM	#15
Bill G Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Walla Walla, WA Posts: 1,047	Re: 1929 Rear hub Removal First isolate whether it is the service brakes or the e-brakes that are holding you up. Remove the e-brake band and try putting the hub on. If it goes on ok, then you know it is the e-brake. Arcing brake shoes is normally done by a machine or brake shop with the necessary (and very old) equipment. There is the old trial and error method with a multi-tool with 80 grit sandpaper. (not recommended)

10-12-2022, 04:41 AM	#16
Ricky Mullen Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2022 Location: Roanoke, Virginia Posts: 14	Re: 1929 Rear hub Removal There is a tool that is designed to square up your brakes before you install the drum. I’ve got the only one I have ever seen. I don’t know what it is called. I would post a picture if I could.

10-12-2022, 07:10 AM	#17
Canton_Model_A's Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Canton, Michigan Posts: 136	Re: 1929 Rear hub Removal I got a hold of one of my local club guys, unfortunately he is out of state currently but is willing to help me with trying to get this done. I am not touching the RR drum until I get him over to the house. Until then, I have a bendix and 4 spark plugs to replace "The never ending project that, ultimately never ends" <-- hahaha