The Ford Barn

The Ford Barn (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/index.php)
-   Model A (1928-31) (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=3)
-   -   Securing the exhaust better (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=263867)

bigd1101 05-24-2019 12:48 PM

Securing the exhaust better
 

As we all know, the Model A's exhaust system is pretty simple and as far as I can see, only one hanger at the far end of the tail pipe assembly is the only thing other than the connection at the manifold which is dubious at best unless you have some custom flanging done to improve the "grip" where the two meet. With the other problems that seem to plague that juncture with a not so perfect union due to the bend in the pipe that comes with the new mufflers and that they don't always align up enough to prevent leaks without good gaskets and or muffler cement, which is exactly the problem I plan on alleviating this weekend with said ingredients, the connection as is worries me.



Now, is there a place I can add a pipe hanger closer to the muffler or past that towards the upward bend to relieve the pressure on the pipe/manifold connection? I don't trust the connection on it's own to hold as it blew out when I first stared up the A last week. I had the clamp damn tight, thought the alignment was good, but no.....all of a sudden the A sounded like a bi-plane coming in for a landing. :eek:


Don

DD931 05-24-2019 01:33 PM

Re: Securing the exhaust better
 

You can get a short tapered piece of exhaust pipe that goes behind that joint to make it much less likely to leak.

mhsprecher 05-24-2019 01:41 PM

Re: Securing the exhaust better
 

It's my view that the original arrangement works well when you have the proper flange on the pipe where it meets the exhaust manifold. Sometimes the manifolds droop toward the end due to the heat of the exhaust, which can also cause misalignment at the joint.

When I first bought my Town Sedan, I had real problems with that connection. My manifold was cracked toward the end and the pipe came disconnected often. I first replaced the exhaust manifold with an uncracked one, but the problem persisted. I tried everything.

At the MARC National Meet in Niagara Falls, I looked at an Aires muffler and noticed how wide the flange was and realized that was my problem, so I took my old muffler to a muffler shop where they made the flange bigger. That took care of that problem and the pipe never disconnected again. I later replaced the exhaust manifold due to the droop, which cause leakage at #4 exhaust port, as well. Not a single problem since I had the flange reworked,

john in illinois 05-24-2019 02:27 PM

Re: Securing the exhaust better
 

I have used the stock set up with an Aries muffler for 26,000 mile never a problem except rattles which I have cured with rubber cushions.

You need an original spec clamp. Some repos are not made right-as with many parts.

John

BillCNC 05-24-2019 02:44 PM

Re: Securing the exhaust better
 

I agree, there should be another hanger but you can bend the pipe at the 90° bend to get it aligned correctly.

Over the year's the muffler weight sag's the hot manifold causing it close up the 90° bend making alignment a real pain. It doesn't take much to re-bend it to the proper alignment angle. Just put in a chain link fence post or something equivalent. You can also tape a rag on the end of the pipe so you wont get pressure dings in the muffler pipe from the end of the chain link post. It took me like 2 minutes and it was in perfect alignment.

Regards
Bill

redmodelt 05-24-2019 05:15 PM

Re: Securing the exhaust better
 

There should not be another hanger unless if flexes. The rear hanger is a sliding fit to allow for expansion and contraction of the exhaust system. It is not a clamp. If it is too tight you might end up with bowed pipe. In an older posting someone suggested a strip of fiberglass muffler wrap be used around the pipe at the support.

duke36 05-25-2019 04:06 PM

Re: Securing the exhaust better
 

Some of us install the gland rings between the manifold and block. Also, fabricating a flexible (rubber laden) rear hanger strap similar to modern cars can help with tailpipe rattle while providing stability / expansion/ contraction,.etc. A universal firm rubber type NAPA strap can be adapted with some bent plate or angles. Ist install the muffler at manifold end while supporting loosely the rear pipe with the stock bracket strap. Then remove the stock rear strap and install the flexible one at the stock hole location. Wrapping the pipe at the rear stock bracket sometimes won't stop the rattle and still make the pipe too tight when it expands or is misaligned.

steve s 05-25-2019 04:45 PM

Re: Securing the exhaust better
 

5 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by duke36 (Post 1761294)
Some of us install the gland rings between the manifold and block. Also, fabricating a flexible (rubber laden) rear hanger strap similar to modern cars can help with tailpipe rattle while providing stability / expansion/ contraction,.etc. A universal firm rubber type NAPA strap can be adapted with some bent plate or angles. Ist install the muffler at manifold end while supporting loosely the rear pipe with the stock bracket strap. Then remove the stock rear strap and install the flexible one at the stock hole location. Wrapping the pipe at the rear stock bracket sometimes won't stop the rattle and still make the pipe too tight when it expands or is misaligned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmodelt (Post 1761067)
There should not be another hanger unless if flexes. The rear hanger is a sliding fit to allow for expansion and contraction of the exhaust system. It is not a clamp. If it is too tight you might end up with bowed pipe. In an older posting someone suggested a strip of fiberglass muffler wrap be used around the pipe at the support.

Here's what I did. Fiberglass between the rubber and the metal. My main motivation was vibration reductions as this contact is an almost solid contact bwtween mootor and frame. Why screw around? Get an Aries and correct clamp--problems gone.

Synchro909 05-25-2019 08:10 PM

Re: Securing the exhaust better
 

On one of my cars, I experimented with a couple of ways to take the weight of the muffler off the manifold. I welded a piece of metal to the pipe just in front of the muffler and put a spring between that and the engine mount. Not sure it did any good but the manifold is still OK and it made me feel like I had achieved something! As for the rear mount, I put a nut between the ends of the clamp so it won't close up completely, then wrap a piece of masking tape or cling wrap aound the pipe. I hold the pipe in the middle of the clamp (which is very loose) with wooded wedges. I then fill the gap all round with silicone and leave it overnight to cure. The pipe slips in the silicone after the tape burns off and it runs silent.

Gold Digger 05-25-2019 09:46 PM

Re: Securing the exhaust better
 

I've owned and operated a tool & Die shop for over 35 years and have made lots of rear exhaust hangers for my friends Model A's. Not bragging but about the best I've seen for fixing the rear hanger. I have made so many I even built a stamping die to form the metal bracket that a piece of conveyor belt fastens to and then the original clamp fastens to the conveyor belt. If I could send a picture I would do so, but I'm not very good at those things. Maybe I can get a younger person to help me. I know they work perfect because everyone that uses one tells me so. No more rattle and can move front to back with heat and contraction.

daveymc29 05-25-2019 10:39 PM

Re: Securing the exhaust better
 

Vermin had a piece of angle aluminum the was mounted to the transmission on one end and with a U-shaped muffler clamp holding the front of the muffler. That didn't do much but space it out from the block the correct distance. Maybe Bill Williamson remembers the theory on that piece?

dmaxweb 08-17-2020 11:42 AM

Re: Securing the exhaust better
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold Digger (Post 1761374)
I've owned and operated a tool & Die shop for over 35 years and have made lots of rear exhaust hangers for my friends Model A's. Not bragging but about the best I've seen for fixing the rear hanger. I have made so many I even built a stamping die to form the metal bracket that a piece of conveyor belt fastens to and then the original clamp fastens to the conveyor belt. If I could send a picture I would do so, but I'm not very good at those things. Maybe I can get a younger person to help me. I know they work perfect because everyone that uses one tells me so. No more rattle and can move front to back with heat and contraction.


Private message sent

aermotor 08-17-2020 12:09 PM

Re: Securing the exhaust better
 

What ever means the rear clamp/support is used it is important that tail pipe fore and aft expansion and contraction be taken into consideration.

John

Jacksonlll 08-17-2020 12:48 PM

Re: Securing the exhaust better
 

Don't forget the engine movement, especially with float-a-motors. Don't tie the front of the pipe down too tight.

Jacksonlll 08-17-2020 12:49 PM

Re: Securing the exhaust better
 

Gold Digger, I want a clamp.

rocket1 08-17-2020 01:00 PM

Re: Securing the exhaust better
 

I would make sure the clamp at the manifold is not inverted or half upside down.I purchased the clamp from Brattons great quality the muffler flange has to be dead nuts on exhaust manifold and clamp tightened securely,it will never fall off.

ryanheacox 08-17-2020 01:25 PM

Re: Securing the exhaust better
 

I used a universal hanger to isolate my tail pipe. It works well and lets the pipe move where it needs to go but it sure doesn't look pretty. My exhaust does occasionally start to leak at the manifold joint. For whatever reason, the rear clamp bolt loosens slightly and snugging it back up quiets everything down.

Ruth 08-17-2020 02:05 PM

Re: Securing the exhaust better
 

There was a guy making "No Nut" muffler clamps that work really well as you only need a socket to tighten. I think his business was called 'Red Quail' or something like that. I seem to have misplaced his contact info.

I do like Ryan and use a universal hanger. I had to double nut the bolts to keep them from loosening.

Synchro909 08-17-2020 05:33 PM

Re: Securing the exhaust better
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruth (Post 1921321)
There was a guy making "No Nut" muffler clamps that work really well as you only need a socket to tighten. I think his business was called 'Red Quail' or something like that. I seem to have misplaced his contact info.

I do like Ryan and use a universal hanger. I had to double nut the bolts to keep them from loosening.

On a RHD Model A, the orientation of the exhaust clamp is critical. If it is even slightly out, the clutch pedal won't go down. To make this easier, we have for many years converted the standard clamp to the type you mention by putting a helicoil in one side. Orientation is then less critical but still a PITA.

Ruth 08-17-2020 06:48 PM

Re: Securing the exhaust better
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synchro909 (Post 1921390)
On a RHD Model A, the orientation of the exhaust clamp is critical. If it is even slightly out, the clutch pedal won't go down. To make this easier, we have for many years converted the standard clamp to the type you mention by putting a helicoil in one side. Orientation is then less critical but still a PITA.

Thanks Synchro. That is good to know.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:46 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.