The Ford Barn - Lion Speed Head

The Ford Barn (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/index.php)

- Model A (1928-31) (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=3)

- - Lion Speed Head (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36213)

Re: Lion Speed Head

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C (Post 204306)

It should run warmer as the aluminum head dissipates heat better.

But you have to remember that Henry used iron heads as orginal equipment. :D

Re: Lion Speed Head

[QUOTE=johnsor;863064]I like my Model A mostly the way it was originally designed, double clutch and all

You use the clutch to shift? I learned to shift my first Model A without using the clutch when I was 16.;)

Re: Lion Speed Head

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Haynes (Post 863553)

Hmmmmn. Terry Burtz makes parts for Snyder's. He is also having foundry problems. Could Terry be the source for Snyder's head?:D

Hey Chris,
Answer...NO !

Re: Lion Speed Head

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave in MN (Post 203948)

Vic,
I, just like you, bought one some time back.
I just installed the Lion Head III cast iron (LSH-III) on an engine I built up for a future project. Two weeks ago I installed it in my Phaeton for testing this summer. I do not have it dialed in yet as to maximum spark advance. I am currently running at a max advance of 28 BTDC and find it is very strong above 2000 rpm. Felt strength from idle to 1800 rpm is not much different than the 5.9 Brumfield on my previous engine in the Phaeton. Acceleration from 50mph to 60mph is quick using a stock Zenith and all the same equipment as the engine with the Brumfield...I am working on a new intake and "B" carb to add additional cfm at the upper range. I expect it to increase the power at the 55 mph mark. If I advance to 28 BTDC prior to reaching about 2200 rpm, there is what I detect to be some pre-ignition noise. I'm a bit concerned that I will need to be more mindful of how I set the spark. From my observations with limited road testing, the Brumfield was much less sensitive to the spark advance in all the rpm ranges than the LSH-III. Granted...the engine is different and there may be some other factors entering in. If you wish, I will keep you informed.
Good Day!
Dave in MN

Dave, I enjoyed reading your post and value your input

Follow-up:
Well, I have it bolted on and it's paid for so I'll see for myself how it works. Given its sensitivity to spark advance, maybe it would companion well with a distributor that had centrifugal advance. I don't have a distributor like this to try...yet!
Vic, I just re-read your post and realized you were referring to an "original" LSH. I had purchased a LSH-III. I don't know if there is a difference.
ADDITIONAL REASON: (added after further testing) The extra weight of the Lion Speed Head is not detracting from the acceleration of my car. WOW! This thing really pulls hard above 1800 rpm. HOLY MOLY...

4/22/2014 Late last summer, I removed the head and hand softened all the sharp machined edges to eliminate any potential heat risers. Re-installed it and it is working well. On my engine, I have found the LSH-111 head performs best at about 26 degrees of advance. More advance is not adding power. I installed a FSI auto advance distributor and it compensates for the head's variable timing needs well. Lots more power than my other engine with a 5.9 Brumfield. The Brumfield produces 55hp with Nu-Rex electronic spark...manual advance. The Lion Speed Head lll, with same carb and exhaust but FSI Ignition, puts out 68hp. I judge the ignitions to be about equal so the head is making about 13 more horses.

Good Day!
Dave

Dave, I enjoyed reading your post and value your input. You say that you figure that the Lion 111 gives 13 more horsepower than the 5.9 BF head. This is very interesting. I'm wondering if your lion head is six to one or seven to one? Thanks Purdy .

Re: Lion Speed Head

We have a v1` lion head and does not perform as expected,(stock dist.) after talking with Charlie yapp(head builder) and fs ignitions. we will be installing the new fs dist. on Thursday,both companys say we will see a big improvement. will keep you up to date>

Re: Lion Speed Head

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes (Post 863566)

Hey Chris,
Answer...NO !

Do you know who makes them?

Re: Lion Speed Head

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Haynes (Post 863879)

Do you know who makes them?

The guy who is casting new engine blocks Todd

Re: Lion Speed Head

Tod Buttermore

Has cast and machined heads for the 351 Ford Cleveland engines.

I believe he casts and machines the Snyder Model A heads also.

Some Model T parts too.

details here and several other sites, HAMB, early V8 etc.

https://fordbarn.com/forum/search.php?searchid=3877098

User name on Model A FB is Tod

other user name on HAMB I have seen is 427designer

See post number 9 and below where Tod introduces himself on HAMB.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=616056

MORE...

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135011

Re: Lion Speed Head

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft (Post 863692)

Purdy, Yes, 13 more HP as indicated from my dyno. (You can feel 13 HP when you step on the pedal!) The head is a 6.5:1 compression ratio if installed on a stock bore. My test engine is over-bored .080" so it is just short of 7:1 actual compression ratio...if my calc's are correct....sometimes they are not! :o

Re: Lion Speed Head

Thanks Dave, I don't doubt your calculations. I was just wondering which head to buy, 6 or 7 to one. Charley once told me that the counter bore was plenty deep to mill his heads to 8 to 1 or more .

Re: Lion Speed Head

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft (Post 864045)

Thanks Dave, I don't doubt your calculations. I was just wondering which head to buy, 6 or 7 to one. Charley once told me that the counter bore was plenty deep to mill his heads to 8 to 1 or more .

Purdy, The LSH-111 is currently only available in 6.5:1 from Charlie... unless he agreed to mill one for you. The earlier version LSH-11 was available in 7:1 and 6:1 compression ratios.

Dave

Re: Lion Speed Head

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave in MN (Post 864076)

Purdy, The LSH-111 is currently only available in 6.5:1 from Charlie... unless he agreed to mill one for you. The earlier version LSH-11 was available in 7:1 and 6:1 compression ratios.

Dave

Hey Dave,
Sounds like your experimenting is coming along good:)! If a guy 'insists' on using the original mechanical advance system...you will have to go thru what you have been experiencing with this lsh 111 version. I got one of the first copies of this version and ran it for last 6-8 years. I ended up where you may be headed, i.e.- electronic ignition ! Fire it up with retarded spark as per usual, then pull lever down and FORGET IT ! My B was built very sturdy .030 over with popup pistons with this head. I figure 7:1 and better. It ran VERY strong with 2 81s. I should have left well enough alone,eh . But, a guy can not do that, so one of the guys here is now 'bragging' about how well it runs on his engine :D !
BTW...for those who 'object' to the tooo modern look of some elect dist, I put pertronic elect module setup in my dist and never looked back. Absolutely trouble free. Only wish it had automatic advance, as I believe that I'd enjoy it even more !

Re: Lion Speed Head

I run Mallory dual point distributors in two of my engines. You can get centrifugal advance without going to electronic. A Pertronix Flamethrower coil gives plenty hot spark. I'm a shade tree mechanic and prefer points ignition. Twenty five degrees advance, electronic or points should work just as well.

Re: Lion Speed Head

I'll wait untill I get ready to build another engine before I look in to ordering a head. I see now that I mis read Daves post and the heads are now available only in .6.5 compression. Thats better and should be more user friendly than the 7.0 The increase in horsepower is impressive. If I can feel a nearly seven horse increase with a C or F3 head, you bet I could feel a 13 horse increase over the BF 5.9s

Re: Lion Speed Head

What needs to be done to the version 0ne head to make it better?

Re: Lion Speed Head

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgarrett (Post 864273)

What needs to be done to the version 0ne head to make it better?

anyone?

Re: Lion Speed Head

so far the new (reworked) fs dist at 5 degrees adv at idle. really helped.

Re: Lion Speed Head

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgarrett (Post 866914)

anyone?

Well, good question:) ! IMO, same question asked differently is...how do you fix a design flaw in a piece of equipment ? The answer may be what was done, i.e.- make more versions , until you 'get it right' ?
Seems like a decade ago or less, when putting together the B that I've had in my A, I had discussions with people about buying a head with certain characteristics. While looking/talking about lion head, was told by those who 'claimed' to have bought the first two versions...don't do it. As it turned out, the third version just came out and good was heard. Turned out to be true. I've also heard over time that IRON head makes power, while aluminum...looks good ? Well, if iron makes power is true...this third version should make plenty power at 53 lbs :eek: My third version did positively add to my B.
I have intentionally not added the 'things' that were said that were wrong with v1 and v2, as I did not have direct evidence. Those who have / had them can better address that.

Re: Lion Speed Head

why do people tiptoe around the question?

Re: Lion Speed Head

Probably the best on could to improve a LH1 would be to equalize the combustion chamber in volume and shape for all 4 cylinders. This may not be easy. The LH3 has CNC cut combustion chambers while the LH1 chambers are "as cast".