Re: Lion Speed Head
 

Guys come on. This is the very "krap" that has filtrated over from another forum that many of us dreaded would come. A couple of things that should be noted and then lets move on since Vic has likely received an answer to his original question.

1st) I stated my opinion in a manner that I deemed appropriate based on my own personal experiences (not hearsay) with the same type of head as what Vic has. It is worth noting that all the negative comments are from folks who have experienced the heads other than the latest version. I might also be worth noting that it was mentioned that one satisfied owner of his Lion Head waited until he knew the issues with the first two generations of heads were corrected. It is a shame the archive of this forum are not available to review because this head was discussed quite a bit 5+ years ago.

2nd) Charlie is perfectly welcome IMHO to come here and defend his product and his integrity. He has stated his side, his views, and his reasoning. I have stated my side. This is not, --nor should it be a contest. No one wins!!


The bottom line is people only believe what seems believable to them. If someone thinks my answer to a question is B.S., ...then so be it. My feeling is let them go find out for themselves through first-hand experience rather than word-of-mouth hearsay. Maybe my experiences will be different? Like I said above, I do feel it is time to move on to the next topic as opinions are already formed and it would appear nothing is to be gained by more criticizm of people who have stated their opinion or their experiences.

.

Re: Lion Speed Head
 

mike,
'disparating'..my bad! I tried to change wording(to 'referenced remark')but machine wouldnt allow me!
I hesitate to write this but i knew, or have reason to know, that this subject (Yapp equipment) could/would ignite some background feelings/history here! and, indeed, there is a history that I became aware of many years ago, before fordbarn. there are some that visit here, that im aware of, that know that history, in detail, but haven't said a thing and thats probably a good thing, because although interesting, just cause pissing in the wind here. I think that some here, intuitively sense something underlying..by their input. historically in the 'hobby' ,probably a basis for an interesting but otherwise ugly book!
point: well most 'stepped into' a situation without knowing it.
to clarify my earlier remarks/position: i have absolutely NO first hand knowledge that the first two 'editions' of the lsh were substantard equipment...in any way! upon inquiry, heresy word of mouth info led me to deduce that it was not prudent for ME to seek and/or purchase one of the first two editions. AND, as the third edition run had already been online and reviews(again word of mouth)that is was good...led me to purchase lsh 111 !
thanks ryan for allowing/facilitating lively interaction/discussion here:)!

Re: Lion Speed Head
 

Hey, no problem!! I had no idea there were three either. As for any sarcastic remarks, I truly did learn something about the heads. What some consider a flaw some consider an opportunity. As for any "history" I know of none but now that you mention it I can better understand what was written. If Brent and Charlie have a "history" I can see how the negative comments about a product could have been seen as a personal attack on the builder of that product. Again I know nothing of any past problems between the two of them, the original post asked for "comments on the performance, troubles, your experience or anything else on the original Lion Speed Head?", and I think he got more than he expected.

I have nothing personal against anyone here on this board, I like the differing opinions and the lively discussions. I don't like personal attacks. I called a member here odd once and I should have said his actions were odd but after talking off the board we had an understanding and he could see my point, disagreeed with it, but could see how I came up with it, Anyone should be able disagree with anything one has to say but comment on the content not the person. Has anyone read a post that begins something like "I know this has been covered before and I don't want to cause a problem but I need help with..." What if we answered with "You stupid a$$, it sure has!! Why are you bothering us again!!!"

Many of you have answered something like, "If you look here at the link I have provided you will see a discussion on that topic, let us know if you have any questions".

So this is it for me on this unless my name is brought up in public. Please feel free to PM me or send an email if you want to talk further. God Bless the Model A, this board and all who use it!

Re: Lion Speed Head
 

Lion Speed Head: version 1, 2, 3, 3-A, 4
I offer this spec sheet for those that have a used or older Lion Speed Head.
IRON lion Speed heads are made from one set of patterns. Structurally all versions are the same on the outside and inside. The difference is in machining.

Version I ("I" was NOT cast into the head) was head cast with plugs on the driver’s side, a set of cast in spark plug positions over the valves (8 total) and with Combustion Chambers "as cast". The head could be machined for the second set of plugs at purchase time and, if not, a set of instructions were sent with the head. Version I ran and worked as planned using a "B" head gasket. The issue with VI was that cubic centimeter control of the chambers was difficult to hold as the cast iron process and use of cores to make the chambers had tendency to grow, expand and move a slight amount. I wanted better control over cc’s. These were offered in 6:1 (1/4" fly-cut) , 7:1 (1/8" fly-cut) and 8:1 CR (no fly cut).

V-II was identical in all ways except that I had the pattern maker add material to the chamber wall and roof, so that we could then machine the chambers and to control the cc’s to a much higher degree. This made the chamber gleam like diamonds. I doubt if performance improved much, perhaps a small amount, but the product was much more attractive and professional. AND it allowed even more control of compression ratio by the amount of material removed from the roof of the chamber. It was offered in 6 and 7:1 CR. A 1/16" fly-cut was found on the 7:1 cr and deeper cut was on 6:1 CR heads. These V-1 and V-2 heads are highly sought after by racers and collectors.

V-III (pattern change) was identical but the valve side plugs and corresponding interior core slugs were removed (Dyno showed a loss of HP with plugs used only at the valve side). These VIII heads can not be machined for 4 extra plugs. This reduced weight a bit and added greater water volume. However, I have never had complaints, from the field, about Lions running hot. "HOT" meaning boiling over in normal road conditions. This head has had the longer run of four years and was available only in 6.5:1, because after dyno testing, it was found to be more powerful than other 7:1 brand heads on the market and more powerful (HP and Torque) than any known production flathead made so far. There just wasn’t a need to make it stronger . . . keeping in mind that my #1 objective is to keep my customers on the road with a big grin on their faces and not in the shop.

V-III-A is identical to VIII with the exception that it will be (not on market yet) machined to accept 1-3/4" exhaust valves without machining required in the field. 6.5:1 CR.

V-IV is 356-T6 aluminum from new patterns. These nice heads are run in small quantities with 8 plugs capability and machined for big valves. I do not personally like aluminum for reasonable reasons already mentioned but there are some folks that need them for a variety of uses and it is my hope that offering these will help out that segment of the community. 6.1CR.

Issues: V-I has to be used with a "B" head gasket. There are 4 small areas where the gasket might overlap into chambers. With a "B" BEST brand head gasket this hasn’t been a running problem.

Heads weigh 42 pounds, which is uncommon but is proven as a HP and smoothness advantage.

Can be difficult to remove. Some guys have threaded a rear stud hole to accept an eye bolt to attach a sling for removal.

Head is sensitive to spark control (a good thing) and most old timers are not use to it. An electronic ignition and centrifugal advance distributor pretty much eliminates the issue. If using a hand advance lever do not fully advance until over about 50 mph.

CR is a bit of a misnomer: CR is dependant on chamber cc volume, which is controlled by piston shape, pop-up or under, cylinder overbore, gasket thickness . . so an advertised 6:5 CR may actually be higher. I shoot for 140 cc in a machined chamber for present production.

Production: I have not made any heads for about one year. I lost my prime machine shop and we are re tooling at another. I hope to have product back on the shelf in November 2011.

When it come to engines and performance "opinions", "gut feelings" and "doing it the way its always been done" will slow you down. C. Yapp

Re: Lion Speed Head
 

Charlie . I agree with mikeinnj . Keep on keeping on ,dont let brent or mike get you down . If its not what they like no matter who or what it is they will get the same attitude and comments ,i have my share i dont know brent or mike personaly i am sure they are great men and and enjoy there model a .they just dont like change. God bless

Re: Lion Speed Head
 

Charlie,

Keep making good stuff. My Lion III did more for my speedster's performance than anything I have put on it.

Bill

Re: Lion Speed Head
 

Charlie, thanks for posting this. Very informative indeed. As for the comment of you attacking another poster, i would have to disagree. It was obviously the other way around, which alot of people seen. Keep up the good work and good luck with the new retooling. Keep us updated. Mark.

Re: Lion Speed Head
 

I have had one of the orginal LSH's on my Fordor Sedan since Charlie first started taking orders. It orginally ran on a stock engine and now a H&H Touring motor, F&S Electronis ignition and his castiron headers. I am also using Charlie's Equilzer Intake with a Stromberg 97 and an F150 4 speed. My wife and I do a lot of long distance touring. I have found the LSH to be great reliable and trouble free. Last year we drove 2500 miles on an extended MAFCA Pony Express Tour and this year from KC MO to Natchez MS on a MAFCA Tour and mostly at highway speeds without any problems. With the amount of luggage we carry or sometimes extra people I don't even consider the weight of the head to be an issue.

Re: Lion Speed Head
 

Umm, you would be a little more courteous without the name calling.

Re: Lion Speed Head
 

OK, time to jump in.

I'm well acquainted with Brent, I like him a lot and respect his opinions most of the time (except when mine are different, I guess :D).

I have spoken with Charlie at at least one national meet and came away with a good feeling about him & his products.

when Charlie announced his first pre-production special on Ahooga.com, I was #17 in line and ended up with head #31, a 6:1 with single spark plugs.

put it on my old black Tudor which was bored .100 over, with a B carb & manifold and Mitchell OD.

it ran GREAT and caused NO PROBLEMS. if I wanted to stay under 60mph I had to keep an eye on it. liked it enough that I removed & kept it when I sold the car. then my friend Mike who is building the Behrig Convertible Victoria wanted it, so I traded with him for a new 5.9 Brumfield. Mike changed his mind later so we traded back and I still have the Lion head on the shelf waiting patienty.

I found the Lion to be a little more fussy regarding spark advance compared to the Brumfield we have on our Town Sedan. Also the cooling fins require the spark rod to be lengthened and bent if you run a stock distributor. other than that, I recommend the Lion and don't see any down side to the extra weight.

we are going to get our Coupe engine refreshed this year (valves + rings + whatever else it needs). if the babbit is still good, I will put a Snyder 5.5 on it. if new babbit is required, I might just put the Lion on it.

stay tuned.

your results may vary.

Re: Lion Speed Head
 

I have a lion speed head 3 on my "a" . it really pulls hard . I love it !!

Re: Lion Speed Head
 

How can we tell if we have a v1 or v2 head without removing it?

Re: Lion Speed Head
 

talk about a slow internet connection ...............:cool:

Re: Lion Speed Head
 

3-years isn't so slow -- In Model A years! :D

Re: Lion Speed Head
 

I like my Model A mostly the way it was originally designed, double clutch and all. That's the fun of it. I have a modern car that's real quick,but respect those who like to tinker with modifications. To each his own.

Re: Lion Speed Head
 

Talk about bringing the dead back;

http://www.animatedimages.org/data/m...image-0002.gif

Re: Lion Speed Head
 

Here is the differences in the versions of the heads

Re: Lion Speed Head
 

while we are talking head . is anyone running a lsh3 with a weber ? if so , what is your jetting ? ... thank you .. steve

Re: Lion Speed Head
 

Just got off the phone with charlie yapp, for info on one of our lion heads its a v1, good guy willing to help,

Re: Lion Speed Head
 

Hmmmmn. Terry Burtz makes parts for Snyder's. He is also having foundry problems. Could Terry be the source for Snyder's head?:D